U.S. obesity problem intensifies

[plumjam]

I blame baseball. I watched a game last night, and whenever they focused on the crowd there they were, sat there like stock at a pig farm.
Every single person was stuffing their face in that thoughtless entitled way Americans do. The seats were already looking a bit small, so it couldn't be out of hunger. It's more a comforting habit encouraged by a culture of consuming the maximum amount of whatever's thrown at you until a blood vessel in your brain bursts.

 

[JoeyDonuts]

I blame baseball. I watched a game last night, and whenever they focused on the crowd there they were, sat there like stock at a pig farm.
Every single person was stuffing their face in that thoughtless entitled way Americans do. The seats were already looking a bit small, so it couldn't be out of hunger. It's more a comforting habit encouraged by a culture of consuming the maximum amount of whatever's thrown at you until a blood vessel in your brain bursts.

Must have been a Rangers game.

 

[DC]

I blame baseball. I watched a game last night, and whenever they focused on the crowd there they were, sat there like stock at a pig farm.
Every single person was stuffing their face in that thoughtless entitled way Americans do. The seats were already looking a bit small, so it couldn't be out of hunger. It's more a comforting habit encouraged by a culture of consuming the maximum amount of whatever's thrown at you until a blood vessel in your brain bursts.

is this because of the sport baseball? i found that extremly boring to watch on TV.
or does that also happen in the best and most action filled sport in the World?
the NHL?

 

[JoeyDonuts]

is this because of the sport baseball? i found that extremly boring to watch on TV.
or does that also happen in the best and most action filled sport in the World?
the NHL?

Subjective at best.

Hitting a 90+ MPH fastball is routinely ranked as the single most difficult feat to accomplish in professional sports.

I guess it helps if you've been shot full of androgen. That way, when you do make contact, it hits the upper deck.

 

[DC]

Subjective at best.

Hitting a 90+ MPH fastball is routinely ranked as the single most difficult feat to accomplish in professional sports.

I guess it helps if you've been shot full of androgen. That way, when you do make contact, it hits the upper deck.

sorry didnt want to offend you

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

Subjective at best.

Hitting a 90+ MPH fastball is routinely ranked as the single most difficult feat to accomplish in professional sports.
I guess it helps if you've been shot full of androgen. That way, when you do make contact, it hits the upper deck.

It wouldn't be US experts who routinely make that determination, would it?

 

[Oliver]

I have no sympathy for anyone who doesn't at least show some discipline in controlling their weight.

I have in case of Depressions or genetically related obesity due to hormone-/neurotransmitter related deseases etc.

 

[Obsequious]

I have no sympathy for anyone who doesn't at least show some discipline in controlling their weight.

Originally I had tried to organize an objection without frothing at the mouth but that has proven impossible. Instead I would suggest Harpyja and anyone of similar mindset look into eating disorders a bit for clues why you might want to re-think the "discipline" angle and to learn that there's more to eating disorders than anorexia and bulimia.

I am also curious whether you believe that you can tell whether a person "shows some discipline in controlling their weight" just by looking at them. My guess would be "Yes," but I hope that I'm wrong.

Moving beyond the usual bickering, is anyone else tired of the way these threads always seem to focus on moralizing around weight and arguing about calories in vs calories out? Weight management is more complicated, and way more interesting, than just a matter of personal choice. There are biological and psychological mechanisms behind all eating behavior. Appetite and satiety are not the same. The urge to not to do work has led to all kinds of technological innovation, and now that Western life is relatively easy and food is abundant but biology hasn't changed, is it any surprise that we're gaining weight?

Most of you guys are a lot smarter than I am, which is why I read this board. It would be refreshing to see that collective intellect directed at WHY people behave as they do rather than yet another thread of squabbling about whether or not they should.

 

[ZirconBlue]

Moving beyond the usual bickering, is anyone else tired of the way these threads always seem to focus on moralizing around weight and arguing about calories in vs calories out? Weight management is more complicated, and way more interesting, than just a matter of personal choice. There are biological and psychological mechanisms behind all eating behavior. Appetite and satiety are not the same. The urge to not to do work has led to all kinds of technological innovation, and now that Western life is relatively easy and food is abundant but biology hasn't changed, is it any surprise that we're gaining weight?

Very well said.

Not speaking about anyone in particular, but it seems to me that people who talk about how the obese have chosen to be fat and just need better self-discipline are usually people who are relatively thin, and don't have to work very hard to stay that way. If you're the sort of person that doesn't have to muster a great deal of willpower every single day to force yourself to exercise or to resist overeating, that doesn't mean you have some sort of iron will and are morally superior, it just means that you have it easier and should count yourself lucky. And just because you won the lottery of genetics and psychology doesn't mean you should lord it over the inferior (fat) masses.

If, on the other hand, you're the sort of person who, through sheer determination, have fought your instincts on a daily basis and won, then I salute you.

 

[johnny karate]

I'm a little unclear on the metric being used to determine how "hard" it is for someone to apply self-discipline and/or will power. Furthermore, I am also unclear about where on the spectrum it becomes "too hard" and is therefore excusable to choose to not to apply it.

Anyone care to enlighten me?

 

[ZirconBlue]

I'm a little unclear on the metric being used to determine how "hard" it is for someone to apply self-discipline and/or will power. Furthermore, I am also unclear about where on the spectrum it becomes "too hard" and is therefore excusable to choose to not to apply it.

Anyone care to enlighten me?

I don't know. There are shades of gray, you know? But, if it takes little effort (mental or physical) on your part to do something, then it's not really "willpower" or "self-discipline", is it? It only takes willpower or self-discipline to do something if it's difficult.

I cook dinner just about every night. It takes no willpower for me to "force" myself to make dinner, because I enjoy cooking. Other people hate cooking, and it takes willpower and self-discipline for those people to cook their own dinner rather than dining out or picking up fast food. Cooking my own food is generally healthier, often tastier and cheaper. But I don't feel smug or look down upon those who don't cook their own dinner. I certainly don't find their behavior "inexcusable".

 

[casebro]

Having health problems, and being overweight, I've been interested in this topic.

I finally found a study that compared the health of the obese not to the 'healthy weight', but to the obese who lost weight. A long term (five years +) study of about 500 people who lost 50 kilos or more. The weight loss did nothing to improve heart attack risk or cancer rates. And as mentioned above, longevity does not seem to be affected. Diabetes and it's side effects were the only improvement, probably not what Joe Public cares about in the obesity debate.

Oh, regarding weight loss studies: The only large group that keeps weight off for long enough term to study, is those who have undergone gastric surgery.

So it looks to me like obesity isn't the gross villain it is made out to be. Weight loss is of little benefit. And, temporary weight loss through "dieting" is totally useless. I'm thinking the weight is caused by some 'disease' state. Losing the weight does not fix the disease, but fixing the disease would cause weight loss.

Maybe the disease is a psychological need to eat, maybe a neurological lack of satiety, maybe a common gastric anomaly that makes many hungrier than they need to be? Or a genetic difficulty with the mix of food we eat?

Oh well, we return you now to your petty squabbling....

 

[linusrichard]

I'm a little unclear on the metric being used to determine how "hard" it is for someone to apply self-discipline and/or will power. Furthermore, I am also unclear about where on the spectrum it becomes "too hard" and is therefore excusable to choose to not to apply it.

Anyone care to enlighten me?

As far as I can tell, it's always "excusable," because it's not something that needs excusing.

 

[ZirconBlue]

Or a genetic difficulty with the mix of food we eat?

I think it's just a matter of evolution not keeping up with technological and societal changes. Those of us in developed nations have access to virtually unlimited calories with little effort required on our parts to obtain them. If we were living in the environments our ancestors did, we'd be forced to exercise just to survive, and, with calories more scarce, could pretty much eat our fill at any opportunity.

 

[Kariboo]

Why is it that people suffering from obesity who have the choice to lose weight expect people to accommodate their lifestyle choice?

Do they? where?

Why is it considered taboo to teach children proper dieting habits,

That's the first I hear of that. Linky?

and why are people pushing for "fat acceptance," which is essentially acceptance of a destructive habit?

Not the same thing, and also : linky?

I don't have anything against people who are fat by choice.

It kinda seems like you do though.

Why should thinness not be a desirable trait? I would imagine that as a whole, particularly in western countries, being physically fit is considered sexually attractive and as being a far more desirable state to be in.

I am sure fat people don't want to be physically fit and attractive. although those two are not necessarily the same as being thin.

Why should medical care focus on promoting pleasurable rather than healthy dieting?

It doesn't, it however includes pleasurable eating as part of he solution. People are more likely to stick to something that they at least partially enjoy

Also, from a medical perspective, why promote physical activity that does not help an individual get healthier?

That is not what it says, it says that it should be beneficial (life enhancing) and not only focused on weight loss. Again because it will help people stick to it.

So why advocate for teaching and applying methods that have been known to shorten life and bring with them all sorts of medical maladies?

where do you see anyone advocating that?

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

<snip>

Most of you guys are a lot smarter than I am, which is why I read this board. It would be refreshing to see that collective intellect directed at WHY people behave as they do rather than yet another thread of squabbling about whether or not they should.

http://www.nutrition.org.uk/home.as...978&subSectionId=327&parentSection=301&which=

 

[Cuddles]

There are glandular and hormonal conditions that can cause people to become obese. These people didn't choose to be fat.

Originally I had tried to organize an objection without frothing at the mouth but that has proven impossible. Instead I would suggest Harpyja and anyone of similar mindset look into eating disorders a bit for clues why you might want to re-think the "discipline" angle and to learn that there's more to eating disorders than anorexia and bulimia.

30% of the US population is obese. Not just overweight, clinically obese. Yes, there are eating disorders and various other medical conditions that can make it difficult to keep your weight down. Are you seriously suggesting that a third of the US population suffers from some kind of genetic or mental disorder that causes them to be obese? Really?

It really is very simple. Fat people are that way because they eat too much and don't exercise enough. That really is all there is to it. Aside from the minority who have a genuine medical condition that causes problems controlling either diet or physical activity, it's entirely their own fault. It's not necessarily a bad thing. As has already been pointed out, obesity does not appear to correlate with life expectancy, and many people are perfectly happy with being overweight, even proud of it. But it's still their own actions that are the cause. And those who don't want to be overweight but are anyway because they're unable or unwilling to control their diet can't point at those with real problems and pretend that it's anything to do with them.

Speaking of frothing at the mouth, how exactly do you think people with genuine eating disorders feel when they see fat, lazy people using them as an excuse to be fat and lazy?

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

<snip>

Speaking of frothing at the mouth, how exactly do you think people with genuine eating disorders feel when they see fat, lazy people using them as an excuse to be fat and lazy?

Like another chocolate bar?

 

[johnny karate]

I don't know. There are shades of gray, you know? But, if it takes little effort (mental or physical) on your part to do something, then it's not really "willpower" or "self-discipline", is it? It only takes willpower or self-discipline to do something if it's difficult.

I cook dinner just about every night. It takes no willpower for me to "force" myself to make dinner, because I enjoy cooking. Other people hate cooking, and it takes willpower and self-discipline for those people to cook their own dinner rather than dining out or picking up fast food. Cooking my own food is generally healthier, often tastier and cheaper. But I don't feel smug or look down upon those who don't cook their own dinner. I certainly don't find their behavior "inexcusable".

I didn't mean to imply being overweight is inexcusable. But I do think that saying losing weight is "too hard" is inexusable. It creates a climate where no one has to do anything they don't want to if they arbitrarily deem it "too hard". Which was why I posed the queries I did. If being "too hard" becomes a reason to not do something, then I think it's reasonable to establish how we came to the conclusion it was "too hard" in the first place.

To use your example of preparing dinner, I certainly don't find that task too difficult. However, the best I can say about it is that it's a neutral experience. I don't dislike it, but I don't get any particular enjoyment from it either. It's just something that needs to be done. But it does require effort, regardless of how I feel about exerting that effort. So is it an act of will power for me to prepare dinner? Yes, insomuch that it requires me to perform a task from which I get no enjoyment. But at this point in my life, it's an exertion of will power I'm barely even aware of anymore.

I think the same principle applies to a regiment of healthy diet and exercise. No matter who you are, or what your genetic predispositions are, choosing to eat well and exercising on a regular basis requires effort, and thus an exertion of will power. (Especially exercise. I don't think by any definition of the word could one call exercising "easy".) But eventually, with a little self-discipline, it becomes part of a routine. You don't exert any less effort in doing it, you just become accustomed to the exertion.

As far as I can tell, it's always "excusable," because it's not something that needs excusing.

Unless an excuse is being offered. I don't care if someone is overweight. But I do take issue with someone telling me they're overweight because it's too hard not to be.

 

[DC]

I'm a little unclear on the metric being used to determine how "hard" it is for someone to apply self-discipline and/or will power. Furthermore, I am also unclear about where on the spectrum it becomes "too hard" and is therefore excusable to choose to not to apply it.

Anyone care to enlighten me?

in case you have normal wight, take aditional 30-50 kilo and go walk in the park a little excercise. walking is easy