a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
c0rbin said:
in reference to this
I think I can safely guarantee there are in Texas :-
a) Houses
with
b) Satellite Links
c) Large quantities of money
d) weapons
and so forth.
yersinia29
Thinker
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- Apr 23, 2004
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- 165
a_unique_person said:
Uhhh...those 3 things are EXCEEDINGLY RARE in a ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ country like Iraq, especially out in the middle of the ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ desert.
You cant compare that to Texas, whose economy is the 11th largest in the WORLD and dwarfs the whole nation of Iraq by nearly 50%. Texas, a state with a standard of living thats several fold higher than Iraq.
yersinia29
Thinker
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The video footage of kids being killed was filmed 300 miles away in another town that the US did not strike.
Something fishy is going on here.
Something fishy is going on here.
Kevin_Lowe
Unregistered
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- Feb 10, 2003
- Messages
- 12,221
yersinia29 said:
Actually, Iraq was very modern until about ten years ago when the USAF bombed the heck out of it. It wasn't Venice, or even Texas, but it didn't do badly. Compared to the rest of the Middle East standards of health and literacy were excellent, I believe.
Of course people got kidnapped and tortured for looking at someone the wrong way all the time, because the government were brutal thugs. [/straight line]
A satellite phone is eminently affordable and useful to people who don't have mobile phone coverage or a landline. It's also the last thing I'd use if I was a terrorist - gee, do you think it's possible that the US could be monitoring satellite phone traffic in Iraq?
Having Syrian and Iraqi cash, and passports, is perfectly logical for people who live near the Iraq/Syria border. It's no more strange than a citizen of the US who lives near the Canadian border having a passport and Canadian money in their possession.
Firearms are again quite normally possessed by Iraqi civilians. Wouldn't you want to be armed if your country was a poorly-policed war zone?
Now it could indeed have been a safehouse that was attacked. I wasn't there. The reasons for skepticism are that the US armed forces have lied in the past to cover up atrocities like this (claimed) one, and that the material that hss been presented as evidence that the atack was righteous is obviously insufficient.
It walks and quacks like a sop thrown to the Fox News viewers, frankly. "Um, we haven't recovered the bodies of any known terrorists. Nor have we found plans, bombs, weapons of mass destruction, rocket launchers, surface to air missiles, orders, photos of Osama or anything else indicative of actual insurgent activity. Nor have we any intercepted data or anything we can show you to make you believe we had probable cause to blow the place apart. But we found guns, money and passports amongst the corpses! Mission Accomplished!".
Heck, I've got money, a passport and a mobile phone at my place. Obviously that's sufficient proof that I'm a terrorist to retroactively justify killing me. I've even got a modem - what more proof do you need that I could have been in touch with terrorists?
Mr Manifesto
Illuminator
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- 4,815
yersinia29 said:
An expert on what's available and what isn't in Iraq now! :wow:
WildCat
NWO Master Conspirator
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- Mar 23, 2003
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- 59,856
Sounds like a fun wedding!
I, for one, wouldn't think of attending a wedding w/o my artillery spotting binoculars or terrorist training manuals. And I don't even live in Texas!
WildCat
NWO Master Conspirator
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- 59,856
Re: Bombing
The "wedding party" claim is just propaganda, IMHO. It just doesn't pass the smell test.
Unlikely in this case. Troops were nearby when the bombing took place, and moved in immediately afterwards. Nothing wedding-related was found. The children graves allegedly killed in the attack were shown to reporters 275 miles away from the scene!nightwind said:
The "wedding party" claim is just propaganda, IMHO. It just doesn't pass the smell test.
AP: Video Shows Iraq Wedding Celebration
By SCHEHEREZADE FARAMARZI
Associated Press Writer
May 23, 2004
Email this story.
The bride arrives in a white pickup truck and is quickly ushered into a house by a group of women. Outside, men recline on brightly colored silk pillows, relaxing on the carpeted floor of a large goat-hair tent as boys dance to tribal songs.
The videotape obtained Sunday by Associated Press Television News captures a wedding party that survivors say was later attacked by U.S. planes early Wednesday, killing up to 45 people. The dead included the cameraman, Yasser Shawkat Abdullah, hired to record the festivities, which ended Tuesday night before the planes struck.
The U.S. military says it is investigating the attack, which took place in the village of Mogr el-Deeb about five miles from the Syrian border, but that all evidence so far indicates the target was a safehouse for foreign fighters.
"There was no evidence of a wedding: no decorations, no musical instruments found, no large quantities of food or leftover servings one would expect from a wedding celebration," Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt said Saturday. "There may have been some kind of celebration. Bad people have celebrations, too."
But video that APTN shot a day after the attack shows fragments of musical instruments, pots and pans and brightly colored beddings used for celebrations, scattered around the bombed out tent.
The wedding videotape shows a dozen white pickup trucks speeding through the desert escorting the bridal car - decorated with colorful ribbons. The bride wears a Western-style white bridal dress and veil. The camera captures her stepping out of the car but does not show a close-up.
An AP reporter and photographer, who interviewed more than a dozen survivors a day after the bombing, were able to identify many of them on the wedding party video - which runs for several hours.
APTN also traveled to Mogr el-Deeb, 250 miles west of Ramadi, the day after the attack to film what the survivors said was the wedding site. A devastated building and remnants of the tent, pots and pans could be seen, along with bits of what appeared to be the remnants of ordnance, one of which bore the marking "ATU-35," similar to those on U.S. bombs.
A water tanker truck can be seen in both the video shot by APTN and the wedding tape obtained from a cousin of the groom.
The singing and dancing seems to go on forever at the all-male tent set up in the garden of the host, Rikad Nayef, for the wedding of his son, Azhad, and the bride Rutbah Sabah. The men later move to the porch when darkness falls, apparently taking advantage of the cool night weather. Children, mainly boys, sit on their fathers' laps; men smoke an Arab water pipe, finger worry beads and chat with one another. It looks like a typical, gender-segregated tribal desert wedding.
As expected, women are out of sight - but according to survivors, they danced to the music of Hussein al-Ali, a popular Baghdad wedding singer hired for the festivities. Al-Ali was buried in Baghdad on Thursday.
Prominently displayed on the videotape was a stocky man with close-cropped hair playing an electric organ. Another tape, filmed a day later in Ramadi and obtained by APTN, showed the musician lying dead in a burial shroud - his face clearly visible and wearing the same tan shirt as he wore when he performed.
As the musicians played, young men milled about, most dressed in traditional white robes. Young men swayed in tribal dances to the monotonous tones of traditional Arabic music. Two children - a boy and a girl - held hands, dancing and smiling. Women are rarely filmed at such occasions, and they appear only in distant glimpses.
Kimmitt said U.S. troops who swept through the area found rifles, machine guns, foreign passports, bedding, syringes and other items that suggested the site was used by foreigners infiltrating from Syria.
The videotape showed no weapons, although they are common among rural Iraqis.
Kimmitt has denied finding evidence that any children died in the raid although a "handful of women" - perhaps four to six - were "caught up in the engagement."
"They may have died from some of the fire that came from the aircraft," he told reporters Friday.
However, an AP reporter obtained names of at least 10 children who relatives said had died. Bodies of five of them were filmed by APTN when the survivors took them to Ramadi for burial Wednesday. Iraqi officials said at least 13 children were killed.
Four days after the attack, the memories of the survivors remain painful - as are their injuries.
Haleema Shihab, 32, one of the three wives of Rikad Nayef, said that as the first bombs fell, she grabbed her seven-month old son, Yousef, and clutching the hands of her five-year-old son, Hamza, started running. Her 15-year-old son, Ali, sprinted alongside her. They managed to run for several yards when she fell - her leg fractured.
"Hamza was yelling, 'mommy,'" Shihab, recalled. "Ali said he was hurt and that he was bleeding. That's the last time I heard him." Then another shell fell and injured Shihab's left arm.
"Hamza fell from my hand and was gone. Only Yousef stayed in my arms. Ali had been hit and was killed. I couldn't go back," she said from her hospital bed in Ramadi. Her arm was in a cast.
She and her stepdaughter, Iqbal - who had caught up with her - hid in a bomb crater. "We were bleeding from 3 a.m. until sunrise," Shihab said.
Soon American soldiers came. One of them kicked her to see if she was alive, she said.
"I pretended I was dead so he wouldn't kill me," said Shihab. She said the soldier was laughing. When Yousef cried, the soldier said: "'No, stop," said Shihab.
Fourteen-year-old Moza, Shihab's stepdaughter, lies on another bed of the hospital room. She was hurt in the leg and cries. Her relatives haven't told her yet that her mother, Sumaya, is dead.
"I fear she's dead," Moza said of her mother. "I'm worried about her."
Moza was sleeping on one side of the porch next to her sisters Siham, Subha and Zohra while her mother slept on the other end. There were many others on the porch, her cousins, stepmothers and other female relatives.
When the first shell fell, Moza and her sisters, Subha, Fatima and Siham ran off together. Moza was holding Subha's hand.
"I don't know where Fatima and my mom were. Siham got hit. She died. I saw Zohra's head gone. I lost consciousness," said Moza, covering her mouth with the end of her headscarf.
Her sister Iqbal, lay in pain on the bed next to her. Her other sister, Subha, was on the upper floor of the hospital, in the same room with two-year-Khoolood. Her small body was bandaged and a tube inserted in her side drained her liver.
Her ankle was bandaged. A red ribbon was tied to her curly hair. Only she and her older brother, Faisal, survived from their immediate family. Her parents and four sisters and brothers were all killed.
In all, 27 members of Rikad Nayef's extended family died - most of them children and women, the family said.
Link: http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040523/API/405230755
By SCHEHEREZADE FARAMARZI
Associated Press Writer
May 23, 2004
Email this story.
The bride arrives in a white pickup truck and is quickly ushered into a house by a group of women. Outside, men recline on brightly colored silk pillows, relaxing on the carpeted floor of a large goat-hair tent as boys dance to tribal songs.
The videotape obtained Sunday by Associated Press Television News captures a wedding party that survivors say was later attacked by U.S. planes early Wednesday, killing up to 45 people. The dead included the cameraman, Yasser Shawkat Abdullah, hired to record the festivities, which ended Tuesday night before the planes struck.
The U.S. military says it is investigating the attack, which took place in the village of Mogr el-Deeb about five miles from the Syrian border, but that all evidence so far indicates the target was a safehouse for foreign fighters.
"There was no evidence of a wedding: no decorations, no musical instruments found, no large quantities of food or leftover servings one would expect from a wedding celebration," Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt said Saturday. "There may have been some kind of celebration. Bad people have celebrations, too."
But video that APTN shot a day after the attack shows fragments of musical instruments, pots and pans and brightly colored beddings used for celebrations, scattered around the bombed out tent.
The wedding videotape shows a dozen white pickup trucks speeding through the desert escorting the bridal car - decorated with colorful ribbons. The bride wears a Western-style white bridal dress and veil. The camera captures her stepping out of the car but does not show a close-up.
An AP reporter and photographer, who interviewed more than a dozen survivors a day after the bombing, were able to identify many of them on the wedding party video - which runs for several hours.
APTN also traveled to Mogr el-Deeb, 250 miles west of Ramadi, the day after the attack to film what the survivors said was the wedding site. A devastated building and remnants of the tent, pots and pans could be seen, along with bits of what appeared to be the remnants of ordnance, one of which bore the marking "ATU-35," similar to those on U.S. bombs.
A water tanker truck can be seen in both the video shot by APTN and the wedding tape obtained from a cousin of the groom.
The singing and dancing seems to go on forever at the all-male tent set up in the garden of the host, Rikad Nayef, for the wedding of his son, Azhad, and the bride Rutbah Sabah. The men later move to the porch when darkness falls, apparently taking advantage of the cool night weather. Children, mainly boys, sit on their fathers' laps; men smoke an Arab water pipe, finger worry beads and chat with one another. It looks like a typical, gender-segregated tribal desert wedding.
As expected, women are out of sight - but according to survivors, they danced to the music of Hussein al-Ali, a popular Baghdad wedding singer hired for the festivities. Al-Ali was buried in Baghdad on Thursday.
Prominently displayed on the videotape was a stocky man with close-cropped hair playing an electric organ. Another tape, filmed a day later in Ramadi and obtained by APTN, showed the musician lying dead in a burial shroud - his face clearly visible and wearing the same tan shirt as he wore when he performed.
As the musicians played, young men milled about, most dressed in traditional white robes. Young men swayed in tribal dances to the monotonous tones of traditional Arabic music. Two children - a boy and a girl - held hands, dancing and smiling. Women are rarely filmed at such occasions, and they appear only in distant glimpses.
Kimmitt said U.S. troops who swept through the area found rifles, machine guns, foreign passports, bedding, syringes and other items that suggested the site was used by foreigners infiltrating from Syria.
The videotape showed no weapons, although they are common among rural Iraqis.
Kimmitt has denied finding evidence that any children died in the raid although a "handful of women" - perhaps four to six - were "caught up in the engagement."
"They may have died from some of the fire that came from the aircraft," he told reporters Friday.
However, an AP reporter obtained names of at least 10 children who relatives said had died. Bodies of five of them were filmed by APTN when the survivors took them to Ramadi for burial Wednesday. Iraqi officials said at least 13 children were killed.
Four days after the attack, the memories of the survivors remain painful - as are their injuries.
Haleema Shihab, 32, one of the three wives of Rikad Nayef, said that as the first bombs fell, she grabbed her seven-month old son, Yousef, and clutching the hands of her five-year-old son, Hamza, started running. Her 15-year-old son, Ali, sprinted alongside her. They managed to run for several yards when she fell - her leg fractured.
"Hamza was yelling, 'mommy,'" Shihab, recalled. "Ali said he was hurt and that he was bleeding. That's the last time I heard him." Then another shell fell and injured Shihab's left arm.
"Hamza fell from my hand and was gone. Only Yousef stayed in my arms. Ali had been hit and was killed. I couldn't go back," she said from her hospital bed in Ramadi. Her arm was in a cast.
She and her stepdaughter, Iqbal - who had caught up with her - hid in a bomb crater. "We were bleeding from 3 a.m. until sunrise," Shihab said.
Soon American soldiers came. One of them kicked her to see if she was alive, she said.
"I pretended I was dead so he wouldn't kill me," said Shihab. She said the soldier was laughing. When Yousef cried, the soldier said: "'No, stop," said Shihab.
Fourteen-year-old Moza, Shihab's stepdaughter, lies on another bed of the hospital room. She was hurt in the leg and cries. Her relatives haven't told her yet that her mother, Sumaya, is dead.
"I fear she's dead," Moza said of her mother. "I'm worried about her."
Moza was sleeping on one side of the porch next to her sisters Siham, Subha and Zohra while her mother slept on the other end. There were many others on the porch, her cousins, stepmothers and other female relatives.
When the first shell fell, Moza and her sisters, Subha, Fatima and Siham ran off together. Moza was holding Subha's hand.
"I don't know where Fatima and my mom were. Siham got hit. She died. I saw Zohra's head gone. I lost consciousness," said Moza, covering her mouth with the end of her headscarf.
Her sister Iqbal, lay in pain on the bed next to her. Her other sister, Subha, was on the upper floor of the hospital, in the same room with two-year-Khoolood. Her small body was bandaged and a tube inserted in her side drained her liver.
Her ankle was bandaged. A red ribbon was tied to her curly hair. Only she and her older brother, Faisal, survived from their immediate family. Her parents and four sisters and brothers were all killed.
In all, 27 members of Rikad Nayef's extended family died - most of them children and women, the family said.
Link: http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040523/API/405230755
Wildcat, have you see any of the video footage from the scene?
They showed some here in the UK (BBC I think, or it could have been Channel 4), I can`t remember now if it was footage shot by Iraqis or reporters on the ground there.
There certainly were a lot of mangled kids around, that`s for sure although of course, that doesn`t prove anything one way or the other.
As you say, it may be best to reserve judgement on exactly what went down here and I feel pretty confident that the truth will come out...I think we are begining to see a bit more of that as this Iraq saga unfolds.
They showed some here in the UK (BBC I think, or it could have been Channel 4), I can`t remember now if it was footage shot by Iraqis or reporters on the ground there.
There certainly were a lot of mangled kids around, that`s for sure although of course, that doesn`t prove anything one way or the other.
As you say, it may be best to reserve judgement on exactly what went down here and I feel pretty confident that the truth will come out...I think we are begining to see a bit more of that as this Iraq saga unfolds.
Mr Manifesto
Illuminator
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2003
- Messages
- 4,815
WildCat said:
Funny how you didn't reserve judgement when the 'evidence' supported your POV.
shemp
a flimsy character...perfidious and despised
yersinia29 said:
And where, pray tell, do you get this? Source please? Or is that fishy smell coming from your decayed brain?
shemp
a flimsy character...perfidious and despised
A similar version of the story demon posted above:
AP: Video Shows Iraq Wedding Celebration
For those who don't bother to read the whole story, I'd just like to throw in a little emphasis (bold mine):
Well, I'm glad somebody got a good laugh at the reception.
AP: Video Shows Iraq Wedding Celebration
For those who don't bother to read the whole story, I'd just like to throw in a little emphasis (bold mine):
Well, I'm glad somebody got a good laugh at the reception.
smalltlalk_2k
Student
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2003
- Messages
- 36
Its just another military "oops". Its a shame that those things happen but it does happen. As technology and battle communication advances these type of things happen less and less frequently. However, it is still a sad thing.
shemp
a flimsy character...perfidious and despised
It isn't just that it happened. If it did happen the way the media is portraying it, then why does the U.S. military continue to lie about it?
Kodiak
Illuminator
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2001
- Messages
- 3,279
shemp said:
Where's your vaunted skepticism? Other reports say that there was no food, no band or other music, and no decorations. How do you know that its the military that is lying?
Keep in mind the source, but those gathered were criminals says military .