U.S. Border and Immigration

Donal said:
... Because we have a hand in a lot of those problems ....
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This does not get nearly enough media attention. The US for a century or more propped up right wing dictators in Central and South America providing essentially free military support for large corporations that were exploiting the natural resources of those countries.

Instead of putting some of those resource dollars back into the countries by paying decent wages and supporting infrastructure like roads, hospitals and schools, human labor was treated as a resource and wages were kept to a minimum. Any attempt at unionizing was met with murder of the organizers.

Now it's blowback time. And our interference is still going on.

The Guardian: Fleeing a hell the US helped create: why Central Americans journey north
... More often US intervention in the affairs of these small and weak states has been deliberate, motivated by profit or ideology or both.

“The destabilisation in the 1980s – which was very much part of the US cold war effort – was incredibly important in creating the kind of political and economic conditions that exist in those countries today,” said Christy Thornton, a sociologist focused on Latin America at Johns Hopkins University. ...

... Alta Verapaz, in the northern Guatemala highlands, where small-scale farmers are being driven off their land to make way for agro-industry producing sugar and biofuels. ...

... It is an example of why it is often hard to distinguish between security and economic reasons for migration. The men behind the land grabs are often active or retired military officers, who are deeply involved in organised crime.

... Guatemala’s long civil war can in turn be traced back to a 1954 coup against a democratically elected president, Jacobo Árbenz, which was backed by the US. Washington backed the Guatemalan military, which was responsible for genocide against the native population. An estimated 200,000 people were killed between 1960 and 1996.
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And so on and so on you can find similar situations all across Central and South America.

To ask 'why are we responsible' is a bit naïve.
Best policy, help people fix their own countries. That's not going to happen, we waited too long. We can still try but it will take long term policy changes and the large corporations that we are still backing have a lot of lobbying influence working against reform.

Moving on to the second issue. Most of these people want to work and they take jobs Americans don't like harvesting crops. They need to be paid a decent amount, given decent housing and their kids educated. I'm happy to pay more for my food to support that.

In this neighborhood more than half the people here have Spanish speaking gardeners including me. I think my gardener got a green card after being in the country for 20 years. I don't care if he has one or not. He, his wife, and their son do all the work in less than 1/2 hour and I pay them $75. I have no problem paying them that much. They're very nice people and they work hard.

There are immigrants all over the country doing house and yard work, working in factories and restaurants, etc.

Trump for political reasons that only serve himself could care less about the details. We all know he's controlling Speaker Johnson not to bring the vote to the floor. I hope the Democrats can put that 5K/day into perspective for the country and make Trump and his cowering cult members look like the creeps that they are for holding the bill back.

McConnell is already asking to separate Ukraine and Israel's military aide to lessen the blow to GOP legislators up for reelection this Nov.
 
ahhell said:
Do you have a source for that? I can only find that level of education for party membership but not on who actually voted for anyone. Found something


https://www.vox.com/2021/5/10/22425178/catalist-report-2020-election-biden-trump-demographics

You gotta love VOX, they've got an article "We need to talk about white people that voted for trump" Of course, because talking about the hispanic and black people that voted for trump would be very uncomfortable.

From that article:
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This assertion is pointless because you'fe talking about miniscule numbers. And the answer will be, universally, "we're too pig ignorant to realise he wants to destroy us". It's not that hard to suss out the reasons for people obviously voting against their interests.
 
Gulliver Foyle said:
This assertion is pointless because you'fe talking about miniscule numbers. And the answer will be, universally, "we're too pig ignorant to realise he wants to destroy us". It's not that hard to suss out the reasons for people obviously voting against their interests.
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Has it ever crossed your mind that maybe, just maybe, you don't know what their interests are? Or that perhaps a white person shouldn't dictate what's in the "best interests" of minorities?

I'm kinda shaking my head here at the lack of self awareness involved in a white person saying "I know what's best for black and hispanic people, and those minorities that don't agree with me are just pig ignorant"
 
Emily's Cat said:
Has it ever crossed your mind that maybe, just maybe, you don't know what their interests are? Or that perhaps a white person shouldn't dictate what's in the "best interests" of minorities?

I'm kinda shaking my head here at the lack of self awareness involved in a white person saying "I know what's best for black and hispanic people, and those minorities that don't agree with me are just pig ignorant"
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There is a fair chance that any person who is a visible minority and votes for a racist who does not even want them in the country, and whose vote encourages and perpetuates that racism, is in fact pig ignorant. What that person sees as their best interests has little relevance.
 
zorro99 said:
Trump and his supporters don’t want to solve the border crisis since they won’t have anything to whine about come election time.
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this is true, this is the one time in the last 20 years that the dems wanted a legit deal and actually made major concession, and the reps are ******** all over them.
 
Steve said:
There is a fair chance that any person who is a visible minority and votes for a racist who does not even want them in the country, and whose vote encourages and perpetuates that racism, is in fact pig ignorant. What that person sees as their best interests has little relevance.
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Just doubling down on your white saviorness.
 
Republican Congressman Chip Roy calls out Trump:

Roy: I saw Trump make that allegation on one of his social media posts. All a president has to do is declare the border is closed, and it's closed. Well, with all due respect, that didn't happen in 2017, 2018, 2019, and 2020. There were millions that came in during those years


https://twitter.com/acyn/status/1755064824109686905
 
oooo, if he's losing Chip Roy, can the likes of Gosar be far behind?
 
zorro99 said:
A massive, embarrassing failure on the MAGA republicans. They have no interest in solving the border crisis.
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Meh, what should be the massive embarrassing failure is the failure of this deal that they'd been working on. The Mayorkas thing is just a blip.
 
lobosrul5 said:
From a GOP Senator of what the bill will do:

But Republican Senator James Lankford, one of the bill's co-sponsors, refuted claims about that 5,000 figure on Monday on Fox News' Fox and Friends.

"We've got to be able to have something that mandatorily deports everyone rather than actually releases everyone," Lankford said. "That's what this does. Some people are thinking this is somehow like counting 5,000 in every day or releasing them. That's absurd."

He added that if the proposed legislation had been in place already, it would have already resulted in one million fewer illegal immigrants in the country at the present moment.

https://www.newsweek.com/does-border-bill-allow-18-million-migrants-us-what-we-know-1866921
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This is the tough-on-the-border Republican that Trump now pretends he never endorsed probably because he's one of the big proponents of the bill.
 
Lincoln Project ad

"Joe Biden is ready to protect America's southern border and crack down on illegal crossing...and build up border patrol to stop the flow of fentanyl, charge sex trafficker, terrorists.
There's only one problem. Donald Trump.

Donald Trump has ordered Republicans to block the toughest immigration bill in decades. For all their tough talk, their solution is to do nothing because Donald Trump needs chaos to win..."

https://youtu.be/6O61jkz0DDI?si=2ukOjWqUtuFM1lUU
 
Emily's Cat said:
Has it ever crossed your mind that maybe, just maybe, you don't know what their interests are? Or that perhaps a white person shouldn't dictate what's in the "best interests" of minorities?

I'm kinda shaking my head here at the lack of self awareness involved in a white person saying "I know what's best for black and hispanic people, and those minorities that don't agree with me are just pig ignorant"
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They may not understand their reasons, or more likely are fooling themselves into thinking their reasons are not their reasons.

The first category are even more stupid than I'm giving them crefit for, so out of the goodness of my heart I don't ascribe such stupidity to them. The second category are only fooling themselves, nobody else.

On your larger assertion, I do not need to "know" T****y supporrters to understand their racist motives, they broadcast them loud and clear.
 
zorro99 said:
"Joe Biden is ready to protect America's southern border and crack down on illegal crossing...and build up border patrol to stop the flow of fentanyl, charge sex trafficker, terrorists.
There's only one problem. Donald Trump.

Donald Trump has ordered Republicans to block the toughest immigration bill in decades. For all their tough talk, their solution is to do nothing because Donald Trump needs chaos to win..."

https://youtu.be/6O61jkz0DDI?si=2ukOjWqUtuFM1lUU
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The dumb thing is, Aaron Sorkin explained it clearly back in, what, 1994?

We have serious problems to solve, and we need serious men to solve them. And whatever your particular problem is, friend, I promise you, {Donald Trump} is not the least bit interested in solving it. He is interested in two things and two things only: making you afraid of it and telling you who's to blame for it. That, ladies and gentlemen, is how you win elections. You gather a group of middle-aged, middle-class, middle-income voters who remember with longing an easier time, and you talk to them about family and American values and personal character. And you hold up an old photo of {Taylor Swift}. You scream about patriotism and you tell them she's to blame for their lot in life, and you go on television and you call her a whore.
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The names have changed, but it's exactly the same playbook.

1) Making you afraid of it, and
2) Telling you who's to blame for it
3) Somewhere, in there, you have to find some woman to blame

Sorkin wrote about this 30 years ago. Still, today, we have people in the US who think, "Right on!"

You can disagree with Sorkin's politics all you want, but what he wrote here is undeniably true. And the current GOP is the perfect illustration of it.
 
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