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Twoofers Only: The Mark Roberts Factual Error Thread

jhunter1163

beer-swilling semiliterate
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OK, everyone. This thread is for Xena, Swing, RedIbis, and any other Truther who wants to jump in here.

For the purposes of this thread, we'll assume that I am a fencesitter on all things 9/11. I stand willing to be persuaded on any matter.

What I would like to see is independent confirmation of an error that Mark Roberts has made. That is, I want to see just exactly where he's gone wrong. It's very simple, really; just say "Mark Roberts said X (link), but the truth is actually Y(link)."

I will accept no opinion pieces; I'm a skeptic after all. I want to see verifiable facts. Anything posted will be checked for accuracy and context.

Go to it. I'm waiting.
 
The errors of Mark Roberts are those of any sophist OS pedaler.

Informal logic is no substitute for substantive discussion of reasonably questioned anomalies of the most significant event of the 21st century.


Mark Roberts, just like the kings of yellow journalism at Popular Mechanics, presents a couple of nefarious half truths from Loose Change, refutes them, and considers the entire investigative 9/11 movement debunked.


Or he cherry picks a couple of points from men like David Ray Griffin, calls himself refuting them with special pleading, appeal to anonymous/unqualified authority, and considers everything in totality of DRG and the investigative movement debunked.


You see the funny thing is these sophist pretend that the entire investigative movement of 9/11 is based off the idea that it was a controlled demolition.


That is not even close to true. All that would have to be proved in a court of law was that people in positions of significant influence were criminally negligent in preventing the attacks and participated in a cover-up by methods such as spoliation.


The debunkers love to focus on the speculations and divert attention away from smoking gun facts.


For instance, they love to focus on how it's speculation if whether a 707 could do comparable damage to a 767 (although if you have a fundamental grasp of science you could figure this out with a kinetic energy formula. That and the fact that the building was designed to take SEVERAL 707s which is more than comparable to a single 767)

But why not focus on the fact that the alleged heat was intense enough to weaken structural steel yet not hot enough to affect people who were seen waving from buildings.

If it was indeed hot enough to mold steel, people just within FEET of the incendiary would have been toast. Yet here they are seen waving from the buildings as if there was no raging inferno.

Which would be consistent with the fact that it was reported on radios as isolated pockets of fire that could have been knocked down with a couple of water hoses.

Would have been consistent with the fact that most of the dominant substance out of those towers after the initial fireball is DARK SMOKE which is consistent with an oxygen deprived fire.

If a building is engulfed in flames, that dark black smoke would have been replaced with some bright orange flames.


Yet even in the history of architecture buildings that have had fires with much more heat with much longer durability, have not even begin to affect the structural integrity of the steel as witnessed in 9/11.

And worst of all, the most recent expert explanation we have for all of this, only explains teh collapse up to the initiation.

When although the initiation was unprecedented, it isn't nearly as big of a mystery as what followed which are activities that would explained a lot easier if they didn't have such a limited scope on their hypothesis.
 
The debunkers love to focus on the speculations and divert attention away from smoking gun facts.
sorry to derail the thread but why do you place blame for this on the debunkers? arent the folks peddling the speculations just as (if not more so) guilty of "diverting attention?"
 
You know, I've noticed that you never actually make an argument, Stick.

Why is that?
 
Wow, first post out of the box and stickman hangs a litany of completely debunked nonsense on the Board.

That has got to hurt the Twoof Movement.

/every point worthless
 
I can think of a couple of minor errors in my Loose Change Guide. Since CurtC did the HTML and hosted it, I didn't want to bother him with changes unless it was something important. I had only been looking into 9/11 conspiracy claims for 2-3 weeks when I wrote that. I had started a major revision of that guide last year after "Loose Change Second Edition Recut" came out, but stopped when it reached 250 pages. It was taking too much time, the LC craze was winding down, and I didn't think many people would read it anyway.

I made an error a few days ago that RedIbis corrected. I had posted that a guy named James Barrett was a north tower basement witness who didn't notice any bombs or anything unusual going on. He was actually a witness to no bombs in the south tower basement. I thanked RedIbis for the correction.

Yesterday I posted something about Operation Northwoods that was inaccurate. Brainster and gumboot corrected me, and I thanked them.

Yesterday R. Mackey corrected me about the size of Okanogan County, Washington. I thanked him and wrote to the county website's administrator to have the incorrect information changed.

I debunk myself several times a day. Much of what I initially believe is wrong, and gets corrected with research.
 
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For instance, they love to focus on how it's speculation if whether a 707 could do comparable damage to a 767 (although if you have a fundamental grasp of science you could figure this out with a kinetic energy formula. That and the fact that the building was designed to take SEVERAL 707s which is more than comparable to a single 767)

There is indeed a quote to support your claim. However, you seem to miss the concept that Leslie Robertson, who designed it for an impact from a 707, does not buy into your conspiracy theory. More than that, a 767 has a much more impressive wingspan, carrying fuel which can spread over several floors (given that they hit at an angle), and given the velocity they were impacting at, the fireproofing is simply blown off. A 707 is not capable of that, nor several.

But why not focus on the fact that the alleged heat was intense enough to weaken structural steel yet not hot enough to affect people who were seen waving from buildings.

If it was indeed hot enough to mold steel, people just within FEET of the incendiary would have been toast. Yet here they are seen waving from the buildings as if there was no raging inferno.

You see them jumping to their certain death too. Lots of them.

Which would be consistent with the fact that it was reported on radios as isolated pockets of fire that could have been knocked down with a couple of water hoses.

The old 'couple of lines' quote.

This was once, on the lowest floor of impact. They are talking about one floor.

One floor.

One floor.

At the lowest point.

Look above it.

Would have been consistent with the fact that most of the dominant substance out of those towers after the initial fireball is DARK SMOKE which is consistent with an oxygen deprived fire.

DSC04820Large.JPG


And worst of all, the most recent expert explanation we have for all of this, only explains teh collapse up to the initiation.

NIST have no reason to go further. That's not their job.
 
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<snip>

But why not focus on the fact that the alleged heat was intense enough to weaken structural steel yet not hot enough to affect people who were seen waving from buildings.

<snip>

Oh my oh my... What a bright stick figure we have here.

ETA: *puts Stickfigure on ignore*
 
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[/Twoofer Mode]

Mark says he is the Blueberry Tart King but the truth is Blueberry Tarts Sing. Hardly any musical accompaniment necessary, very sweet voices.

How could a Blueberry Tart be a monarch? Besides the crown would always get dirty, and blueberry is a hella stainer. If a Blueberry Tart King made a decree nobody could read the friggin' thing. It'd have so many stains on it, you'd have thought it was Valerie Plame's CIA-redacted book.

Factual Error, m'kay?

[/Twoofer Mode]
 
I seem to remember someone here having a picture of one of the Towers with fire in every window on one floor. Would whoever has that mind terribly posting it in this thread?

:(

35931731.91102.jpg


35931732.91103.jpg
 
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It's very simple, really; just say "Mark Roberts said X (link), but the truth is actually Y(link).

I will accept no opinion pieces; I'm a skeptic after all. I want to see verifiable facts. Anything posted will be checked for accuracy and context.

The errors... [snipped to remove regurgitation of the same old crap without a single link]


The instructions were pretty simple, Stickman. Can you not provide any evidence at all in keeping with those simple instructions set out in the OP?
 
The instructions were pretty simple, Stickman. Can you not provide any evidence at all in keeping with those simple instructions set out in the OP?

It also says Twoofers Only. So by posting here you are a Twoofer! Ha! I ran circles around you logically!

Wait.... perhaps I did not think my cunning post all the way through.
 
The errors of Mark Roberts are those of any sophist OS pedaler.

You see the funny thing is these sophist pretend that the entire investigative movement of 9/11 is based off the idea that it was a controlled demolition.


That is not even close to true. All that would have to be proved in a court of law was that people in positions of significant influence were criminally negligent in preventing the attacks and participated in a cover-up by methods such as spoliation.

Then why does the Truth Movement put so much focus on the controlled demolition theories?
 

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