Merged Two Mosques to be built near Ground Zero

Some more of Rauf's words:

I was born in Kuwait to Egyptian parents. My father was a religious scholar who studied and graduated at Al-Azhar University in Cairo, an Islamic institution of great distinction and learning. He was sent to this country by Al-Azhar to head a growing Muslim community in New York city. He was active in what used to be called the ecumenical movement, promoting understanding between different religions. Today, we call it interfaith dialogue.

For me, coming from a country where the majority was Muslim, I found this society remarkably nonreligious, even anti-religious. In the 1960s, religion was considered by many to be passe; a crutch for the feeble-minded. I remember the cover of Time Magazine that screamed out "Is God Dead?" This was shocking to me, extraordinary. And I thought to myself, "Wow, this place sure is different!"

I got my bachelor's in physics at Columbia University. I married, raised my children here, and I had a number of occupations: a high-school teacher, a salesman of industrial products, and a struggling writer. I'm a typical New Yorker, ladies and gentlemen. I am an American.

In 1979, I became a naturalized U.S. citizen. I believed, and still believe, and pledged allegiance to the values of the United States Constitution, and I know that these sacred rights were won by the blood of brave American soldiers. My own niece -- my own niece -- currently serves in the United States Army.

I know that this country was founded by individuals who left their countries of origin because they were unhappy with their government and with the restrictions imposed on religious life and liberties. They wanted something better. Participatory government; freedom of speech; separation of church and state: these were among my earliest lessons in American civic life.

In America, we do protect these differences. We protect different expressions of faith. We assemble in our various houses of worship to pray, to chant, to recite our sacred scriptures, or simply to come together in communion and draw together and draw strength as a community. But religion in America is not imposed on us: We can be as devout or as agnostic as we like.

That choice -- to be or not to be religious, or anything else for that matter -- forced me to think about who I was, who I am, what I truly wanted and chose to be; and has given me a profound appreciation for the country that provides these freedoms. In that sense, you could say that I found my faith in this country. So for me, Islam and America are organically bound together.
Click to expand...
 
marksman said:
I'll lighten up when you read people's substantive posts.

You promised to support the project with evidence that Rauf condemned Hamas' politics. two people gave you evidence of it -- or at least told you where to find that evidence. You didn't do what you were promised. Instead you're just jumping onto DC's speculation (unfounded as it turns out) that the mosque won't let non-Muslims in the door.
Click to expand...

Dude you have got to be kidding me.

1) I asked a question. The question was answered. I have changed my mind and support the project on the grounds that it is a constitutional right and admit that what was causing me to protest the project in the first place was an unfair and false assumption that building it in the proposed location is an immoral act. I AGREE WITH YOU AND ADMIT I WAS WRONG.

2) I'm just being facetious and sarcastic with DC. I don't think that I would not be allowed into the center just because I am an atheist. If it's an interfaith center meant to build bridges between people of all faiths than I am sure that I will be excepted as well. The purpose of this center is to bring people together regardless of what they believe (or disbelieve) in.

What more do you want? Seriously?
 
JonathanS said:
Dude you have got to be kidding me.

1) I asked a question. The question was answered. I have changed my mind and support the project on the grounds that it is a constitutional right and admit that what was causing me to protest the project in the first place was an unfair and false assumption that building it in the proposed location is an immoral act. I AGREE WITH YOU AND ADMIT I WAS WRONG.

2) I'm just being facetious and sarcastic with DC. I don't think that I would not be allowed into the center just because I am an atheist. If it's an interfaith center meant to build bridges between people of all faiths than I am sure that I will be excepted as well. The purpose of this center is to bring people together regardless of what they believe (or disbelieve) in.

What more do you want? Seriously?
Click to expand...
i retract my jump to the conclusion that you are not a skeptic :) you are one.
 
JonathanS said:
Dude you have got to be kidding me.

1) I asked a question. The question was answered. I have changed my mind and support the project on the grounds that it is a constitutional right and admit that what was causing me to protest the project in the first place was an unfair and false assumption that building it in the proposed location is an immoral act. I AGREE WITH YOU AND ADMIT I WAS WRONG.
Click to expand...
Thank you. That's all I was asking. And, frankly, you have my deep respect. I've only met a half-dozen people on these boards who have changed their mind in the face of contrary evidence. You're one.
 
JonathanS said:
1) I asked a question. The question was answered. I have changed my mind and support the project on the grounds that it is a constitutional right and admit that what was causing me to protest the project in the first place was an unfair and false assumption that building it in the proposed location is an immoral act. I AGREE WITH YOU AND ADMIT I WAS WRONG.
Click to expand...

Thank you. That's not an easy thing to do.
 
I am not totally impressed with his skeptic status unless and until he passes my inspection process.

(;) And it takes a BIG man to admit when he's wrong... hmmmmmm. :) )




ETA: Sorry, couldn't resist.... I know, I know... "Smut and remember where you are..."
 
Last edited:
blobru said:
It's a hard thing to admit.
Click to expand...

I get the impression that FSM wouldn't mind that it's hard. :boxedin:

Kudos to you, JonathanS, for admitting you were wrong. Catching up with the last two pages, I was about to compose a sarcastic post, but obviously won't do now.

I'd also like to thank ANTpogo, GreNME, and others whom I now forget, for tirelessly posting over and again all their evidence and explanations in this and various other threads about Islam and esp. the Park51 community center.
 
All this squishy friendliness is making me feel ill. Can we have amb back? I was enjoying the fireworks.
 
JonathanS said:
Evidence for what exactly?

And speaking of evidence, how about disclosing where the money funding this project will come from? How about disclosing the full roster of investors to the American public? How about proving that the Imam has absolutely no ties to any Hamas or Hezbollah linked individuals -- WITHOUT beating around the bush, using strawman arguments and actually answering the questions being asked of him?

Oh no wait.. I'm just being an Islamophobic bigot again right? I have no right to ask for evidence without being called a racist bigot.. well, to be fair, I automatically assume that those of you attacking me and others who oppose this location are "ravenous leftists" so I guess we're even.

At the end of the day it's going to be built and it's going to be built in the proposed location so it doesn't really matter, does it. You win. Good for you and god bless America.
Click to expand...

Ok you're Islamphobic bigot. Yes you have no right to ask for evidence because your a racisist bigot. And yeah so I guess I'm a ravenous leftist. Now do we fell all warm and cuddly?

P.S. your post is known as a non sequitor.

And P.S. what the hell does god have to do with America.
 
Last edited:
P.S. he admitted he was wrong 13 posts ago and you need to learn to read.

JonathanS said:
1) I asked a question. The question was answered. I have changed my mind and support the project on the grounds that it is a constitutional right and admit that what was causing me to protest the project in the first place was an unfair and false assumption that building it in the proposed location is an immoral act. I AGREE WITH YOU AND ADMIT I WAS WRONG.
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom