Merged Two Mosques to be built near Ground Zero

[Elind]

That isn´t what people like amb or all the other islamophobes are doing. Their mindset will inevitably leads to what I describe... inevitably, that is, if people like you make it possible for them because being "critical of the obvious flaws in Islam" apparently means "ignore such details as guilt or innocent, and repeal the Bill of Rights for Muslims".

I find that criticism is often responded to by accusations of islamaphobia/bigotry and I have felt that weak sting often enough.

Sure there is naked bigotry in the world, but when we act as if criticism of religion is inherently bigotry everything is reduced to black and white, and the real bigots are given more weight than they deserve, because some of their arguments may have truth.

The problem would pretty much go away if we could take religion off this taboo pedestal it has. For example, pretend any religion is in the same category as a political party with this or that platform. Then being critical becomes perfectly legitimate on an item by item basis, and nobody needs to be bigoted about it.

 

[hgc]

I find that criticism is often responded to by accusations of islamaphobia/bigotry and I have felt that weak sting often enough.

Sure there is naked bigotry in the world, but when we act as if criticism of religion is inherently bigotry everything is reduced to black and white, and the real bigots are given more weight than they deserve, because some of their arguments may have truth.

The problem would pretty much go away if we could take religion off this taboo pedestal it has. For example, pretend any religion is in the same category as a political party with this or that platform. Then being critical becomes perfectly legitimate on an item by item basis, and nobody needs to be bigoted about it.

I'm also all in favor of vigorous criticism of religion. Islam is a rich field to harvest in that endeavor. But, that is not what I call bigotry.

What I call bigotry is the placement of collective guilt for 9/11 on all Muslims. This, or the pandering to that position, are present in every reason I've heard so far to oppose Park 51.

 

[Elind]

What I call bigotry is the placement of collective guilt for 9/11 on all Muslims. This, or the pandering to that position, are present in every reason I've heard so far to oppose Park 51.

Is it bigotry to place guilt for 9/11 on Islam? Is 9/11 the only abomination in the equation?

Had it truly been an isolated act by a minority sect, I would say it was bigotry; but it wasn't an isolated act by a minority sect.

I'm sorry that it is not possible to isolate Muslims from Islam. Truth is they need to modify their religion if they want to be loved by all.

I do however point out that the majority of Americans do not oppose Park51, in the sense of wanting to ban it; they just express their dislike of it.

 

[thaiboxerken]

The Kkk is a christian organization. That's why i feel all christians are racist.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using Tapatalk

 

[hgc]

Is it bigotry to place guilt for 9/11 on Islam? Is 9/11 the only abomination in the equation?

"Islam" has no home address. It is not a distinct entity on which to place blame or guilt.

Had it truly been an isolated act by a minority sect, I would say it was bigotry; but it wasn't an isolated act by a minority sect.

I'm sorry that it is not possible to isolate Muslims from Islam. Truth is they need to modify their religion if they want to be loved by all.

So... You're saying that all Muslims bear the guilt? Because it's really common that this type of event is associated with their religion? I think that's what you just said, but correct me if I'm wrong. In any case, that's what I call a bigoted view.

I do however point out that the majority of Americans do not oppose Park51, in the sense of wanting to ban it; they just express their dislike of it.

I understand and appreciate this important distinction. Still, both positions denote something that I find repugnant.

Let me be clear -- There are many things about Islam and about most other religions that I find extremely repugnant. But this issue is about opposing this project in this location because of 9/11. That's not what I think this country ought to stand for.

 

[GreNME]

I do however point out that the majority of Americans do not oppose Park51, in the sense of wanting to ban it; they just express their dislike of it.

Um, right: they don't oppose the project in the sense that they can't claim a legal basis, they "just" ( ) vehemently dislike it, and at least one news network is actively spreading bunches of lies and character assassination about the project and its founders.

But when did bigotry include only those who are breaking or advocate ignoring some law?

 

[Elind]

"Islam" has no home address. It is not a distinct entity on which to place blame or guilt.

I don't know where this "home address" concept comes from. Islam most certainly is a distinct entity, embodied by what is in the Koran, and there are less versions of that than there are of the Bible.

So... You're saying that all Muslims bear the guilt? Because it's really common that this type of event is associated with their religion? I think that's what you just said, but correct me if I'm wrong. In any case, that's what I call a bigoted view.

I am saying that all Muslims need to stop saying that the daily events we see around the world committed in the name of Islam are aberrations by a few, and start asking why their faith produces so many aberrations; and I don't mean just individuals but theocracies like the Taliban, like Hamas, like Hezbollah, like Iran.

Let me be clear -- There are many things about Islam and about most other religions that I find extremely repugnant. But this issue is about opposing this project in this location because of 9/11. That's not what I think this country ought to stand for.

I don't oppose it. I just think it was a stupid idea that any fool could have seen would cause resentment, not understanding.

 

[Elind]

Um, right: they don't oppose the project in the sense that they can't claim a legal basis, they "just" ( ) vehemently dislike it, and at least one news network is actively spreading bunches of lies and character assassination about the project and its founders.

But when did bigotry include only those who are breaking or advocate ignoring some law?

I make no defense of some of what I have seen on Fox, and I haven't seen it all I am sure.

 

[GreNME]

I make no defense of some of what I have seen on Fox, and I haven't seen it all I am sure.

Right, you're only making a defense of bigotry, as long as it doesn't go as far as to say the project shouldn't be built.

 

[Elind]

Your repetitions are becoming boring.

 

[Ladewig]

Have a look at this. Straight from the horses mouth. A muslim.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTA9XuAR_iI

I watched your video. It provides absolutely no evidence to refute the statistics that I have already provided. Teaching American Muslims about evolution will not have the effect you imagine. There are tens of millions of Americans who have been exposed to evolution and still believe in a fundamentalist interpretation of the Bible including a world that is less than 10,000 years old.

Again, I ask. What would you have America do to prevent Muslims from taking over, given that every Muslim in the United States wants to destroy America as we know it.

 

[amb]

Personally, as an American, I feel much more threatened by Christian extremists than Islamic extremists. So obviously we need to eliminate christianity, right?

You feel threatened by a bunch of kooks who the worse thing done is firebomb a couple of abortion clinics rather than an islam who have been responsible for literally thousands of American deaths? Not counting the hundreds of deaths of Americas allies civilians.

 

[amb]

I watched your video. It provides absolutely no evidence to refute the statistics that I have already provided. Teaching American Muslims about evolution will not have the effect you imagine. There are tens of millions of Americans who have been exposed to evolution and still believe in a fundamentalist interpretation of the Bible including a world that is less than 10,000 years old.

Again, I ask. What would you have America do to prevent Muslims from taking over, given that every Muslim in the United States wants to destroy America as we know it.

Okay , I'll bite. I would deport every single extremist muslim back to wherever they come from. It's easy to pick them out. They are the ones preaching hate for the Western lifestyle, the ones who think women are second class or worse citizens, the ones who place the same values on infidels as dogs, the ones who mutilate their female children so as to make sexual intercourse unpleasant for them, the antisemitism muslims which is most of them. Shall I go on? You get my drift?

 

[JihadJane]

You feel threatened by a bunch of kooks who the worse thing done is firebomb a couple of abortion clinics rather than an islam who have been responsible for literally thousands of American deaths? Not counting the hundreds of deaths of Americas allies civilians.

Who said this:

"I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, 'George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan.' And I did, and then God would tell me, 'George go and end the tyranny in Iraq,' and I did"?

 

[Chaos]

Okay , I'll bite. I would deport every single extremist muslim back to wherever they come from. It's easy to pick them out. They are the ones preaching hate for the Western lifestyle, the ones who think women are second class or worse citizens, the ones who place the same values on infidels as dogs, the ones who mutilate their female children so as to make sexual intercourse unpleasant for them, the antisemitism muslims which is most of them. Shall I go on? You get my drift?

I get your drift. No need to continue. Shall we require Muslims to wear yellow crescent on their clothing at all times, so it is easier to recognize them?

 

[amb]

No need for that. You can spot them a mile away. The male walks six paces ahead of the female.

 

[amb]

Who said this:

"I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, 'George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan.' And I did, and then God would tell me, 'George go and end the tyranny in Iraq,' and I did"?

G W B is in the same category as Osama bin Laden. Both kooks!

 

[JihadJane]

G W B is in the same category as Osama bin Laden. Both kooks!

So there's no need to feel threatened by them?

 

[quadraginta]

Okay , I'll bite. I would deport every single extremist muslim back to wherever they come from. It's easy to pick them out. They are the ones preaching hate for the Western lifestyle, the ones who think women are second class or worse citizens, the ones who place the same values on infidels as dogs, the ones who mutilate their female children so as to make sexual intercourse unpleasant for them, the antisemitism muslims which is most of them. Shall I go on? You get my drift?

Can we deport Fred Phelps to Australia? You're more than welcome to him.

Oh, yeah. You can have Mel back, too.

 

[Chaos]

No need for that. You can spot them a mile away. The male walks six paces ahead of the female.

And what if he left his female at home? You´d still need the yellow crescent.

Oh hell, let´s just put them all in detention camps, right? Give them a delousing shower, the relocate them someplace out of the way so people won´t wonder what happened to them.