Merged Two Mosques to be built near Ground Zero

Elind said:
Do you hear that sound of denial and obfuscation? I won't lob it at Soho, or whatever; I think I'll just let it fall where it naturally belongs.
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Thanks for proving my point. After all, you were the one who started referencing Soho Properties (the developer).

In case you forgot:
Elind said:
Someone is being intellectually dishonest, for sure, but talking of CVs, have you read the CV of the guy who is the "developer" that bought the building for the project? Would you buy a used car from someone with as weak and questionable a background explaining rags to riches, as this guy does? There were a lot of similar CVs in Florida a few years ago before the bust.
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Oh my goodness! What eeeebil moo-slem machinations hide behind the real estate investment firm who originally bought the property in question for converting to something else and was convinced to go with the Cordoba Initiative after meeting Rauf?
 
Elind said:
I have only asked what is his reluctance against calling Hezbullah and Hamas terrorist organizations (to keep it simple)?
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Is he reluctant to call Hezbollah and Hamas terrorist organizations?
 
Taarkin said:
Is he reluctant to call Hezbollah and Hamas terrorist organizations?
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Of course not. However, diverting the issue into being one about Israel/Palestine is a convenient "litmus test" for anti-Muslim outrage.
 
GreNME said:
Of course not. However, diverting the issue into being one about Israel/Palestine is a convenient "litmus test" for anti-Muslim outrage.
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You define the antithesis of a non litmus test. Did I even mention Israel/Palestine?

I did not not. I mentioned pure and simple religious bigotry, of a different reflection than the one you routinely throw about.
 
GreNME said:
Thanks for proving my point. After all, you were the one who started referencing Soho Properties (the developer).

In case you forgot:

Oh my goodness! What eeeebil moo-slem machinations hide behind the real estate investment firm who originally bought the property in question for converting to something else and was convinced to go with the Cordoba Initiative after meeting Rauf?
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*shrug*

Read the guy's CV. You brought the issue up. Half of those with the same background in Florida are either in jail or living with their mother.
 
Elind said:
*shrug*

Read the guy's CV. You brought the issue up. Half of those with the same background in Florida are either in jail or living with their mother.
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Right, so you don't have any concrete accusations. Just so we're clear.
 
Elind said:
I have only asked what is his reluctance against calling Hezbullah and Hamas terrorist organizations (to keep it simple)?
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do you demand that all Irish Catholic priests denounce the IRA as terrorists?

why should only Muslim religious leaders receive such an honor?
 
Rika said:
If it is so obvious, list them. Provide the evidence for your claim or go home.
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Now, be nice. He (or she) doesn't have to go anywhere. Besides, it's getting to be amusing watching folks try to go through all of the mental somersaults to avoid admitting that a) it's because the CI folks are Muslim and b) because they really can't avoid linking Muslims to terrorists to have the fears even seem like there's a basis.

I'm perfectly fine with someone proving me wrong and coming up with a justification that doesn't come back to one or (usually) both of those things. Haven't seen one yet.
 
So here's my thought: Skip the cries of racism and calls for sensitivity. Give me one example of reasoning to demonstrate opposition to this mosque isn't FUD. Once that's done, we can discuss that reasoning calmly.

Until then it's not even a conversation.
 
Mycroft said:
Except it does work.

Not all at once or even with every individual, but over time science wins out over religion.
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What did I say ? Maybe three or more decades, but it will work. Mainstream religions are shrinking by the year. In the case of islam it is a little harder as they live their lives based on the teachings of a pedophilic prophet. That also has to be pointed out to his followers.
 
amb said:
What did I say ? Maybe three or more decades, but it will work. Mainstream religions are shrinking by the year. In the case of islam it is a little harder as they live their lives based on the teachings of a pedophilic prophet. That also has to be pointed out to his followers.
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Yes, I bet it will get you real far with muslims anyone when you explain to them what science is and call their prophet a pedophile.

I'm betting they will just stumble over themselves to subscribe to your newsletter.
 
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Ducky said:
Yes, I bet it will get you real far with muslims anyone when you explain to them what science is and call their prophet a pedophile.

I'm betting they will just stumble over themselves to subscribe to your newsletter.
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I predict they will be almost as eager as the Jews were to be educated out of the evils of their religion by rantings and ravings of Martin Luther (or of Henry Ford, for those of you whose European history is a bit rusty).
 
Ducky said:
So here's my thought: Skip the cries of racism and calls for sensitivity. Give me one example of reasoning to demonstrate opposition to this mosque isn't FUD. Once that's done, we can discuss that reasoning calmly.

Until then it's not even a conversation.
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*applause* (we really need a smiley for that)
 
amb said:
What did I say ? Maybe three or more decades, but it will work. Mainstream religions are shrinking by the year. In the case of islam it is a little harder as they live their lives based on the teachings of a pedophilic prophet. That also has to be pointed out to his followers.
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The evidence suggests otherwise. The Assemblies of God believe in Y.E.C. (young earth creationism) and their membership numbers are:

1950- 300,000
1970- 1,000,000
2006- 2,800,000

Teaching evolution and other science to has not eliminated belief in a young earth.

The numbers for the Southern Baptists are just starting to decline, but I think there is no way in hell that they will effectively become zero in the next 40 years.

1965- 10,800,000
1980- 13,700,000
1995- 15,400,000
2000- 15,900,000
2005- 16,600,000
2006- 16.300,000
2007- 16,270,000

In short, the evidence indicates that teaching science will not eliminate fundamentalism of any stripe.

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ETA: Here is a Gallup poll showing that the number of Americans who believe that God Created man in his present form in the last 10,000 years has remained constant from 1982 until 2004.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/14107/th...e-has-supported-darwins-evolution-theory.aspx

Like you, I believe that a more educated electorate will lead to a better society; but there is no evidence that educating American Muslims in science will drastically reduce their numbers.
 
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Just spied this on MSNBC: Taliban recruitment uses NYC Mosque as talking point

... Just as I'd predicted in the voting thread. I said something like, the terrorists are probably loving this controversy. They're probably talking up the people on the fence with "Look how freedom truly works! Look how fast they are to use their freedoms to deny them to others."
 
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