Merged Two Mosques to be built near Ground Zero

[funk de fino]

For the sake of the majority of US citizens [last poll by Times magazine has seven out of ten who don't want this mosque in Park51 area] and to stop a potential civil war on our hands this mosque will not be allowed to proceed.
That's what I'd do!

Mob rule eh? Land of the free! Too funny.

What if a bunch of Saudi businessmen bought the building and opened a Gold Souk?

 

[Ducky]

Everyone's so worried about the new community center and mosque. Wait till you hear what they're going to name it:

Edited by Lisa Simpson: 

Edited to remove inappropriate image.

I hear they hired John Stewart to run it.

 

[ShadowSot]

I just giggle snorted.

 

[AvalonXQ]

Let me ask you a hypothetical question. Let's assume that you are now the president of the U.S. and at the same time, the legislature has said, "we have no idea what to do in this time of national crisis and therefore we grant the president unlimited power to make new laws on his own and to strike down current laws (including those in the Constitution) with no interference from the judicial branch of the federal government."

Not that anyone cares...

but I would issue an executive order immediately removing from power any Congressman who voted for the bill that did this, and mandating a special election to find a legislature that will obey the Constitution. They made an oath to uphold the Constitution, and if they won't do that, they can go home and let a patriot represent their constituents.

 

[Ladewig]

Not that anyone cares...

but I would issue an executive order immediately removing from power any Congressman who voted for the bill that did this, and mandating a special election to find a legislature that will obey the Constitution. They made an oath to uphold the Constitution, and if they won't do that, they can go home and let a patriot represent their constituents.

Yes. The great flaw with the hypothetical is that if one is trying to protect America in this situation, then the battle is already lost. To me, America is the rule of law; checks and balances; and the Constitution along with Constitutionally-protected rights. If you like, I can reconstruct the hypothetical by saying that Albocrat party has supermajorites in both houses, control of the White House, and has appointed 10 SCOTUS justices. Furthermore, each of the 50 states has an Albocrat governor and an Albocrat-controlled legislature. The Albocrat party enjoys an 85% approval rating and all supporters have pledged unwavering support for whatever Constitutional amendments President Alb suggests (including amendments to repeal existing amendments).

 

[amb]

Thank you for the answer. I had already inferred that that was your position. I was trying to ask what you might do about this part:



If you are convinced that the Muslims in America are working to "take down the West," what would you do, in the described hypothetical, to prevent them from succeeding?

Science!! Teach the young in primary schools about science and the evolution of the species. Hold it. That's not allowed in purely muslim schools. That means laws have to be brought in where it is unlawful not to teach Darwinian evolution and the workings of the laws of physics in every school. That way the kids can see for themselves that their koran like the babble is a load of sh.......t. It will take up to three decades, but it will work. Then they will live in a society that's built on rationality, not blasted religion. For muslims religion is part of their lives, that cycle has to be broken.

 

[JihadJane]

Science!! Teach the young in primary schools about science and the evolution of the species. Hold it. That's not allowed in purely muslim schools. That means laws have to be brought in where it is unlawful not to teach Darwinian evolution and the workings of the laws of physics in every school. That way the kids can see for themselves that their koran like the babble is a load of sh.......t. It will take up to three decades, but it will work. Then they will live in a society that's built on rationality, not blasted religion. For muslims religion is part of their lives, that cycle has to be broken.

Glenn Beck will sort it out.

 

[bit_pattern]

Science!! Teach the young in primary schools about science and the evolution of the species. Hold it. That's not allowed in purely muslim schools. That means laws have to be brought in where it is unlawful not to teach Darwinian evolution and the workings of the laws of physics in every school. That way the kids can see for themselves that their koran like the babble is a load of sh.......t. It will take up to three decades, but it will work. Then they will live in a society that's built on rationality, not blasted religion. For muslims religion is part of their lives, that cycle has to be broken.

I call bollocks on your unsubstantiated and sweeping generalisations

To listen to instructions of science and learning for an hour is more meritorious than attending the funerals of a thousand martyrs and more meritorious than standing up in prayer for a thousand nights.

 

[Ladewig]

Science!! Teach the young in primary schools about science and the evolution of the species. Hold it. That's not allowed in purely muslim schools. That means laws have to be brought in where it is unlawful not to teach Darwinian evolution and the workings of the laws of physics in every school. That way the kids can see for themselves that their koran like the babble is a load of sh.......t. It will take up to three decades, but it will work. Then they will live in a society that's built on rationality, not blasted religion. For muslims religion is part of their lives, that cycle has to be broken.

1) how do you explain the Muslims that have been mainstreamed (i.e. attended secular schools for their entire education) and still follow that faith? They have already been exposed to "Darwinian evolution and the workings of the laws of physics."

2) Why will learning the laws of physics cause Muslims to rethink their perspectives on the Koran?

3) Does anything need to be done about adult Muslims immigrating to the U.S. (given that every Muslim in the world is working to take down the West)?

4) Does their pervasive desire to take down the West include taking down Australia?

5) Are you aware that in the U.S., the number of Christian who believe that the world is less than 10,000 years old outnumbers the total number of Muslims in the U.S. by a factor of five to twenty?

 

[Chaos]

Science!! Teach the young in primary schools about science and the evolution of the species. Hold it. That's not allowed in purely muslim schools. That means laws have to be brought in where it is unlawful not to teach Darwinian evolution and the workings of the laws of physics in every school. That way the kids can see for themselves that their koran like the babble is a load of sh.......t. It will take up to three decades, but it will work. Then they will live in a society that's built on rationality, not blasted religion. For muslims religion is part of their lives, that cycle has to be broken.

Sure... because all that worked so *********** marvelously with Christian fundies. You know, all those reality-denying, gay-and-atheist-hating creationist bible-thumpers....

 

[Mycroft]

Sure... because all that worked so *********** marvelously with Christian fundies. You know, all those reality-denying, gay-and-atheist-hating creationist bible-thumpers....

Except it does work.

Not all at once or even with every individual, but over time science wins out over religion.

 

[GreNME]

Except it does work.

Not all at once or even with every individual, but over time science wins out over religion.

Name one religion science has "won" against. I'm almost positive you've only got individual fights you can cite, since science has yet to "win" against any religion.

 

[Mycroft]

Name one religion science has "won" against. I'm almost positive you've only got individual fights you can cite, since science has yet to "win" against any religion.

For the last 250 years or so the oppressive hold Christianity has held over the West has grown noticeably weaker with each passing decade.

Not all at once, but if exposed to both science and religion, religion becomes less important. That doesn't mean it goes away right away, but for some people it does and for others they reinterpret their religion in ways that allows for science too.

 

[GreNME]

For the last 250 years or so the oppressive hold Christianity has held over the West has grown noticeably weaker with each passing decade.

Not all at once, but if exposed to both science and religion, religion becomes less important. That doesn't mean it goes away right away, but for some people it does and for others they reinterpret their religion in ways that allows for science too.

So, in short: none.

 

[thaiboxerken]

I doubt that science played much of a role in the secularization of the USA.

 

[Chaos]

For the last 250 years or so the oppressive hold Christianity has held over the West has grown noticeably weaker with each passing decade.

Not all at once, but if exposed to both science and religion, religion becomes less important. That doesn't mean it goes away right away, but for some people it does and for others they reinterpret their religion in ways that allows for science too.

Wrong.

Scienc hasn´t changed the belief or the attitude of religious fundamentalist by one bit.

Secular societies have taken away the possibility of religious fundamentalists to act on their beliefs, that is all. Jerry Falwell and Fred Phelps never burned anyone at the stake because they are afraid of the punishment, not because they do not believe people deserve it.

 

[Elind]

No, what Sam Harris is doing is being intellectually dishonest. All one has to do is look at the CV of the imam to realize that in the past 15 years he's been basically saying the hypothetical paragraph Harris suggests and more.

Someone is being intellectually dishonest, for sure, but talking of CVs, have you read the CV of the guy who is the "developer" that bought the building for the project?

Would you buy a used car from someone with as weak and questionable a background explaining rags to riches, as this guy does?

There were a lot of similar CVs in Florida a few years ago before the bust.

 

[GreNME]

Someone is being intellectually dishonest, for sure, but talking of CVs, have you read the CV of the guy who is the "developer" that bought the building for the project?

Would you buy a used car from someone with as weak and questionable a background explaining rags to riches, as this guy does?

There were a lot of similar CVs in Florida a few years ago before the bust.

Instead of JAQ-ing off about Soho Properties, just come right out with an accusation.

Kinda funny how when all the character assassination attempts are used up against Rauf, the assassins go after the developer.

 

[Elind]

Instead of JAQ-ing off about Soho Properties, just come right out with an accusation.

Kinda funny how when all the character assassination attempts are used up against Rauf, the assassins go after the developer.

It's called association, and you will use it when relevant as any reasonable person would.

I haven't used any character assassination attempts against Rauf (your words); I have only asked what is his reluctance against calling Hezbullah and Hamas terrorist organizations (to keep it simple)?

Let me rephrase since this is difficult for you.

Do you consider Hezbollah a religious based anti semitic bigotry philosophy that would not allow anyone of the Jewish faith to live in their lands (not that any do)?

I could give further examples, including larger nations, and even considering that there are whacked out Jews who think Israel itself is an abomination against a fictitious god, but even that wouldn't give them a welcome in the bigotry of Islamic nations.

You respond with "assassination" or "bigotry" in response to critique.

Do you actually have any arguments?

 

[GreNME]

It's called association, and you will use it when relevant as any reasonable person would.

I haven't used any character assassination attempts against Rauf (your words); I have only asked what is his reluctance against calling Hezbullah and Hamas terrorist organizations (to keep it simple)?

Let me rephrase since this is difficult for you.

Do you consider Hezbollah a religious based anti semitic bigotry philosophy that would not allow anyone of the Jewish faith to live in their lands (not that any do)?

I could give further examples, including larger nations, and even considering that there are whacked out Jews who think Israel itself is an abomination against a fictitious god, but even that wouldn't give them a welcome in the bigotry of Islamic nations.

You respond with "assassination" or "bigotry" in response to critique.

Do you actually have any arguments?

More than you do, apparently. Are you going to lob an actual accusation at Soho Properties or just keep JAQ-ing off?