Turkish support for ISIS

[gypsyjackson]

I know RT looks at events from a Russian perspective but RT has reported that Erdogan is a mad Sultan with no sense of humour. Can this be true?

It's like the British Foreign Secretary, Hammond, only seems interested in keeping house prices and rents extremely high, particularly in London. He should be looking out for British national interests, and facing up to the danger of the fascist beasts in Turkey and Ukraine, and Greece going bankrupt.

How is it like that in any way?

Also, does he seem interested in house prices? He might have one or more, but he actually seems interested in Libya and Cuba, having visited recently. I'm not aware of him saying anything on house prices.

How should he do the things you suggest in your last sentence?

 

[Darth Rotor]

I know RT looks at events from a Russian perspective but RT has reported that Erdogan is a mad Sultan with no sense of humour. Can this be true?

The use of "sultan" is a cultural caricature, given how he actually came to political power, but maybe he's somewhat mad, or even power mad.

I suggest that your check other sources and see where they do and don't match your RT sources. Ya know, the way adults do when they are trying to do research.

 

[Henri McPhee]

The mad sultan in Turkey only seems interested in a war of aggression on the Kurds rather than trying to combat Isis, which is far more dangerous. I don't have any argument with the Kurds.

At this rate Turkish Intelligence will be bombing American soldiers, who are attached to the Kurdish YPG, which will lead to an international incident.

A journalist from the Daily Mail said on TV recently that international law does not apply to members of the UN Security Council. I don't think that's fair and just.

 

[Darth Rotor]

At this rate Turkish Intelligence will be bombing American soldiers, who are attached to the Kurdish YPG, which will lead to an international incident.

A journalist from the Daily Mail said on TV recently that international law does not apply to members of the UN Security Council. I don't think that's fair and just.

Henri, I've yet to see a law that was any better than its enforcement and/or willing compliance.

As to the Turks bombing Americans: could happen, seeing as how chaotic that situation still is. But it won't be Turkish intel who bombs anyone.

 

[ComfySlippers]

It's pretty obvious by now that Henri must be using some kind of online gibberish generator. All posts follow the same format:

Three paragraphs

1/ I saw this person on some programme someday say this thing.
(Vague, inaccurate, no links)

2/ it reminds me of this entirely unrelated thing that is totally different.

3/ I don't like how another random unrelated thing is happening.
(It isn't even happening)

 

[CapelDodger]

A journalist from the Daily Mail said on TV recently that international law does not apply to members of the UN Security Council. I don't think that's fair and just.

Since it's from the Daily Mail one can be pretty sure it's not true either. That's quite apart from the claim being completely bizarre on the face of it.

 

[Childlike Empress]

I predict now that ISIS will lose Raqaa before Assad is gone.

That's a rather safe bet I think, but who will do it? The Rojava Kurds have just announced that there will be a campaign to conquer Manbij, a far smaller target than Raqqa and kind of in their traditional influence - although possibly such a victory would be enraging the Turks -, while Raqqa is all Arab and the US "coalition" in my opinion underestimates the amount of awareness of the Kurds of historical backstabbings. Why should they send their sons and daughters to die for Raqqa?

I see that the Turkish backed SFA, along with Turkish Artillery, has pushed the Turkish backed IS out of al-Rai and inflicted heavy causalities on them.

Yeah, and to decipher the article one should know that "US-backed" can mean "CIA-backed" in the case of the "moderate (actually working together with Al Nusra as everybody knows)" "FSA" groups who now apparently increased their little pocket of control, while it can also mean "Pentagon-backed" in the case of the former's opponents, the Kurdish-led forces who created that pocket in the first place (in at least indirect coordination with the Syrian army), only stopped by Turkish artillery tens of kilometers into Syrian territory from closing it.

Why yes, it's a total mess.

UPDATE: By now Manbij is encircled by the "Syrian Democratic Forces", i.e. mainly the Kurdish YPG/YPJ with help of US-"coalition" air strikes, while there is no progress in direction of Raqqa. The Syrian Arab Army is meanwhile advancing towards Raqqa from the south-west, with Russian Airforce backing. In Aleppo, the Russians restarted targeting the Al Qaeda thugs and their "moderate" friends, who are backed by the CIA (and the Turks etc). The bickering between CIA and Pentagon has escalated to the point where proverbial "US officials" are accusing the DoD of "mimicking Russian propaganda"!

Two Department of Defense officials told The Daily Beast that they are not eager to support the rebels in the city of Aleppo because they’re seen as being affiliated with al Qaeda in Syria, or Jabhat al Nusra. [...]

The CIA, which supports those rebel groups, rejects that claim, saying alliances of convenience in the face of a mounting Russian-led offensive have created marriages of battlefield necessity, not ideology.

“It is a strange thing that DoD hall chatter mimics Russian propaganda,” one U.S. official, who supports the intelligence community position, wryly noted to Pentagon claims that the opposition and Nusra are one in the same.

The "Syrian Democratic Forces" declared on Monday, for the first time explicitly, that they are "neutral" towards the Syrian Arab Army.

 

[HoverBoarder]

The mad sultan in Turkey only seems interested in a war of aggression on the Kurds rather than trying to combat Isis, which is far more dangerous. I don't have any argument with the Kurds.

The open and direct Turkish support for ISIS has seemingly ended, but Turkish support for radical Jihadists like Al-Qaeda linked Al-Nursa has not.

The Turkish leadership under Erdogan is more interested in killing Kurdish people who have tried many times to make peace with Turkey, than they are at confronting the real security threats of providing radical violent Jihadist support. Even after that support has quite literally come back and blown up in their faces.

That policy of racially genocidal radicalism at the expense of Turkish security self interests presents a very real danger for the safety and economic growth of the Turkish people and their neighbors.

At this rate Turkish Intelligence will be bombing American soldiers, who are attached to the Kurdish YPG, which will lead to an international incident.

That is a very possible situation. More US special operations are being embedded with Kurdish military units fighting ISIS, and Turkey continues to bomb those units. Often with extremely little and potentially no notice for the US. Although as Darth Rotor pointed out, it would not likely be the Turkish Intelligence who would be doing the bombing, it is however likely that Turkish Intelligence would hold much of the blame for not adequately ensuring that the military is not accidently targeting US embedded forces.

A journalist from the Daily Mail said on TV recently that international law does not apply to members of the UN Security Council. I don't think that's fair and just.

International law includes a pretty large range of laws. Many of them involving maritime and trade certainly do apply to Security Council members.

Some International laws such as war crimes however are almost rarely brought against blatant violators including, and possibly especially for the largest Security Council Members. If those International laws did apply to all members, almost all of the political and military leadership from Russia, the US, China, and many other Countries for at least the last 50 years would be in jail.

 

[Childlike Empress]

The Turkish leadership under Erdogan is more interested in killing Kurdish people who have tried many times to make peace with Turkey, than they are at confronting the real security threats of providing radical violent Jihadist support. Even after that support has quite literally come back and blown up in their faces.

Following is a recent picture which kind of went viral, from Nusaybin, which is a city cut in half (similar to Kobanî/Suruç and Serê Kaniyê/Ceylanpınar) by the Berlin-Baghdad railway which is the border between Turkey and Syria since the Sykes-Picot agreement. On the other side of the railway is Qamishli, if I'm not mistaken the second-largest city in "Syrian Kurdistan".

[imgw=600px]http://i.imgur.com/uQC44pn.jpg[/imgw]

You should know you've messed up if this is what's left after you've decorated it with your flags, but it's "mission accomplished" all over again.

 

[crescent]

The Syrian Arab Army is meanwhile advancing towards Raqqa from the south-west, with Russian Airforce backing.

Islamic State counter-attack 'pushes Syrian regime forces from Raqqa province'

Jihadists of the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant drove Syrian regime troops out of Raqqa province on Monday, killing dozens of fighters in a lightning counter-attack, a monitoring group said.

New ISIS gains have the Syrian Arab Army expelled from Raqqa province

Effectively, ISIS fighters have retaken 35 kilometers of territory in western Raqqa in the matter of just 48 hours. With almost all of the SAA’s gains from the Raqqa offensive reversed, the SAA’s Desert Hawks Brigade and Syrian Marines have set a defensive line at the Zakiyah crossroad in order to contain the Islamic State’s counter-offensive.

There are rumors stating that ISIS has captured a number of SAA troops and armored vehicles.

The bad news is not limited to the SAA, it seems ISIS forces in Iraq have destroyed a number of Iraqi armored vehicles near Baiji. This si just rumors, but some have reported as many as five Iraqi Abrams tanks destroyed by ISIS.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Recent US/Russian bruhaha over Russian aircraft attacking folks the US is supporting, and radio traffic between them during the incident. Sad bit of this larger mess, but at least we have a means to communicate ... so maybe a future incident may be avoided.

 

[Childlike Empress]

Recent US/Russian bruhaha over Russian aircraft attacking folks the US is supporting, and radio traffic between them during the incident. Sad bit of this larger mess, but at least we have a means to communicate ... so maybe a future incident may be avoided.

Do you understand that the "folks" "you" support are basically Al Qaeda?

 

[Childlike Empress]

For those who read German here is a must-read article about how the Hatay province of Turkey, which has been part of the "Syrian" cultural sphere until the demise of the Ottoman Empire, is a recruiting ground for Jihadist groups who are "above" the national borders. According to what is said by that interviewed regional Turkish politician, a main recruiting center and inofficial border crossing seems to be at Atme, several "refugee camps" around, which has 2016 Google Satellite images, but there's that proverbial cloud over where he says is the Turkish border fort.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Do you understand that the "folks" "you" support are basically Al Qaeda?

Some may be, and some may not be, and I suggest you try not to oversimplify that. But there are certainly some rough customers in the group our people are backing. That's been a problem since "we" decided to get involved after red lines didn't do any good. When the policy decision was made "Assad has to go" -- and that policy decision was made for better and worse -- the sequel to that is what locals does one work with to achieve that end.

Result? Mess, as could have been predicted by anyone with even modest experience in that region. The vocal advocate of the Arab Spring stuck his foot into the tar baby in a different way than Bush did in Iraq ... thankfully on a smaller scale of mess ... but stuck that foot is. What Putin appears to be doing is engaging "just enough" to keep his local ally in play. (I seem to recall a news item about the Russians pulling some of their people out last month, but memory may not serve me on that).

 

[Childlike Empress]

Some may be, and some may not be, and I suggest you try not to oversimplify that. But there are certainly some rough customers in the group our people are backing. That's been a problem since "we" decided to get involved after red lines didn't do any good. When the policy decision was made "Assad has to go" -- and that policy decision was made for better and worse -- the sequel to that is what locals does one work with to achieve that end.

Syria has been on the "hit list" since before those towers went down. No "red lines" had been crossed before the Mad Max mercenary army which killed Colonel Gadafi with NATO air support was shipped over to Syria with the help of the BENGHAZI! network. Shipped over to Turkey, Hatay province, that is, from which the "Assad has to go" punch was applied. These are all war crimes against international law, as the Russians point out on every occasion they get and the corporate media never mentions because the Nuremburg trials and what logically follows expose The Empire as heir to The Nazis.

 

[Henri McPhee]

Islamic State counter-attack 'pushes Syrian regime forces from Raqqa province'


New ISIS gains have the Syrian Arab Army expelled from Raqqa province


There are rumors stating that ISIS has captured a number of SAA troops and armored vehicles.

The bad news is not limited to the SAA, it seems ISIS forces in Iraq have destroyed a number of Iraqi armored vehicles near Baiji. This si just rumors, but some have reported as many as five Iraqi Abrams tanks destroyed by ISIS.

That's partly the fault of crooked Hillary. She hasn't got her head screwed on.

 

[Rincewind]

That's partly the fault of crooked Hillary. She hasn't got her head screwed on.

Yeah - that makes so much sense...

 

[Childlike Empress]

The Russians have surprised everyone again by achieving the seemingly unachievable: An apology from Mr. Recep Tayyip Erdoğan. Yep, while the Russians are lying on Greek and not Turkish beaches, he finally did what they demanded at his previous attempts to cozy up again: apologize for the shooting down of the Russian SU-24. The Russian reaction:

MOSCOW, June 27. /TASS/. Chairman of the Federation Council’s international affairs committee, Konstantin Kosachyov, believes that Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s message, addressed to Russian President Vladimir Putin, does contain two fundamental statements Russia has firmly insisted on.

"Judging by the information provided by the Russian presidential press-service, the message from the Turkish president does contain two key statements Russia has insisted on all the way: firstly, words of apology, and secondly, the readiness for any initiative to relieve the pain and gravity of the loss suffered by the family of the killed pilot, Oleg Peshkov," Kosachyov said on his Facebook page. [...]

"It is to be hoped that the first step towards overcoming the confrontation has been made. This is just the beginning, of course." [...]

"Clearly, disputes between Russia and Turkey are much deeper and they are of more systematic character than the recent tragedy, which of course shocked us all," he said. "They refer to reasons, to development and possible results of certain conflict situations now in Syria, in Iraq, in some other conflict areas."

"And here we would be expecting from Turkey a revision, so to say, of the approaches, the revision of the positions they have been following lately and which not only caused worse relations with Russia, but to direct degradation of the situation in those conflict areas via direct support for the terrorist structures which are acting in respective countries," the senator said.

"Thus, besides the words of sorrow and apology, which were in the letter, we of course will require also deeds which would prove changed Turkish approaches," he said. [...]

Bolding mine. The Russians will watch very closely in the next days what happens between Aleppo and the Turkish border while they and the SAA are on an offensive started Sunday apparently directed at eliminating the Turkish supplied Al Qaeda cells that are still shelling the civilian areas of Aleppo City each and every day.

 

[Childlike Empress]

The Russians will watch very closely in the next days what happens between Aleppo and the Turkish border while they and the SAA are on an offensive started Sunday apparently directed at eliminating the Turkish supplied Al Qaeda cells that are still shelling the civilian areas of Aleppo City each and every day.

It's now obvious even to informed US veterans that it has all just been words so far.