Turkey defies US as Russian S-400 missile defence arrives

[Andy_Ross]

Turkey has received the first parts of a Russian S-400 missile defence system despite opposition from the US.

The shipment arrived in an airbase in the capital Ankara on Friday, the Turkish defence ministry says.

The move will anger the US, which has warned that Turkey cannot have both the S-400 anti-aircraft defence system and US F-35 fighter jets.

Turkey and the US are Nato allies - but Turkey has also been establishing closer links with Russia.

Turkey has signed up to buying 100 US F-35s, and has invested heavily in the F-35 programme.

However, US defence officials have said they do not want the F-35 jets to be near S-400 systems - because they fear Russian technicians will be able to access the F-35's vulnerabilities.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-48962885

 

[Childlike Empress]

As usual Erdogan is playing all against each other. As soon as any parts arrive, a swarm of NATO engineers will examine them, despite the beef on the public scene. I don't think the Russians are acting wisely by giving that kind of technology to the Turks. Unless they've made certain modifications.

 

[McHrozni]

Turkey has received the first parts of a Russian S-400 missile defence system despite opposition from the US.

The shipment arrived in an airbase in the capital Ankara on Friday, the Turkish defence ministry says.

The move will anger the US, which has warned that Turkey cannot have both the S-400 anti-aircraft defence system and US F-35 fighter jets.

Turkey and the US are Nato allies - but Turkey has also been establishing closer links with Russia.

Turkey has signed up to buying 100 US F-35s, and has invested heavily in the F-35 programme.

However, US defence officials have said they do not want the F-35 jets to be near S-400 systems - because they fear Russian technicians will be able to access the F-35's vulnerabilities.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-48962885

It's just a plan to foster conflict between Turkey and the West that will allow Erdogan to dismantle the secular democracy and build his Islamofascist regime. It has nothing to do with national defence at all.

McHrozni

 

[dudalb]

It's just a plan to foster conflict between Turkey and the West that will allow Erdogan to dismantle the secular democracy and build his Islamofascist regime. It has nothing to do with national defence at all.

McHrozni

Suleiman the Magnificent returns.

 

[Trebuchet]

It's all Obama's fault, of course!

ETA:

And frankly I've always had a very good relationship" with Erdogan, Trump added.

Of course he had. Erdogan puts his opponents in prison, Trump would like to.

 

[mgidm86]

Turkey has received the first parts of a Russian S-400 missile defence system despite opposition from the US.

The shipment arrived in an airbase in the capital Ankara on Friday, the Turkish defence ministry says.

The move will anger the US, which has warned that Turkey cannot have both the S-400 anti-aircraft defence system and US F-35 fighter jets.

Turkey and the US are Nato allies - but Turkey has also been establishing closer links with Russia.

Turkey has signed up to buying 100 US F-35s, and has invested heavily in the F-35 programme.

However, US defence officials have said they do not want the F-35 jets to be near S-400 systems - because they fear Russian technicians will be able to access the F-35's vulnerabilities.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-48962885

It probably won't work anyways

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Erdogan wants Trump to hand him Gulen - as Flynn promised he would.
Escalating the conflict until Trump does is a strategy by Erdogan.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Why would Russia sell the system to a NATO member?
They must know they are making it available to examination by NATO technicians.

 

[Pope130]

Why would Russia sell the system to a NATO member?
They must know they are making it available to examination by NATO technicians.

Probably a downgraded 'export model' of the system. It's not uncommon for exporters to remove some critical technology systems and substitute alternate, older, simpler, or already compromised components in systems going to unsecure locations. The Soviets endearingly referred to the export versions as "monkey models".

 

[Andy_Ross]

So why would Turkey buy it?

 

[Ziggurat]

So why would Turkey buy it?

Good question. Possibly to curry favor with Russia, possibly to build up NATO-independent defense capabilities in anticipation of estrangement from NATO (bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy there, but might have happened anyways), possibly because it's relatively cheap. I'm sure there are factors I haven't considered.

 

[JoeMorgue]

I actually wonder at times if being a perfect storm of both metaphorical and literal middle ground between NATO/Europe/American and Russia is exactly where Turkey wants to stay and there's just going to play both sides, balancing the scales, as long as possible.

 

[Pope130]

So why would Turkey buy it?

Possibly to induce the West to supply higher grade equipment on more favorable terms.

 

[8enotto]

Turkey seems to be playing the sovereign nation card. They are not letting people outside of Turkey make decisions for them.

I am sure the version they will get will be a lessor model in the electronics. Just as when the US sells tanks and such. No night vision or communication gear at all. Advanced weapons and related, forget it.

 

[theprestige]

Probably a downgraded 'export model' of the system. It's not uncommon for exporters to remove some critical technology systems and substitute alternate, older, simpler, or already compromised components in systems going to unsecure locations. The Soviets endearingly referred to the export versions as "monkey models".

Can you give a cite for the "monkey models" thing being a Soviet coinage? I've only ever seen it on 4chan, and I had assumed it originated with the racist-trollist faction there.

Also, "monkey model" is an alliterative epithet in English. The corresponding epithet in Russian, обезьяна модель, is not. Also, the two words have the same number of syllables in English, but a different number of syllables in Russian. To me, all of this points to a coinage by English speakers for English speakers, relying on the tones and rhythms of spoken English to create a memorable and pithy epithet. In English.

While I speculate about 4chan trolls above, I have no good ideas about the actual etymology of the term. If it turns out that we do know where it came from, and it turns out to be a translation or adaptation of Soviet-era Russian military jargon, that would be pretty neat.

So. Do you have a cite?

 

[theprestige]

Good question. Possibly to curry favor with Russia, possibly to build up NATO-independent defense capabilities in anticipation of estrangement from NATO (bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy there, but might have happened anyways), possibly because it's relatively cheap. I'm sure there are factors I haven't considered.

Ironically, even export versions of the S-400 are probably more than adequate to defend agains the current Russian air force. Turkey would only need the latest and greatest if they were concerned about 5th-gen aircraft, which Russia doesn't really have at the moment. If the PAK-FA were a real plane, and a real threat, I'm sure Turkey would be clamoring for Patriot or AEGIS Ashore.

 

[RecoveringYuppy]

To me, all of this points to a coinage by English speakers for English speakers, relying on the tones and rhythms of spoken English to create a memorable and pithy epithet. In English.

Apparently coined by a native Russian speaker fluent in English.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_variants_of_Soviet_military_equipment

 

[Childlike Empress]

So now Trump has kicked Turkey out of the F-35 program in which it has been a major partner and minor producer, with the plan to buy 100 pieces. But like Erdogan has told the public Trump has promised him on the sidelines of the G20 meeting, no sanctions under CAATSA have been implemented or even threatened, and the comments of US and NATO talking heads were even deescalating. Meanwhile Russia has offered SU-57s while ROFLing.

 

[Andy_Ross]

SU-57s hahahaha well, I suppose they want to damage NATO.

 

[theprestige]

The good news is, there's no downgrade from the Soviet model to the monkey model of the Su-57.

The bad news is, the Russians don't even have enough monkey model Su-57s to meet their own needs. I'm sure they were ROFLing when they promised Turkey could have some.