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TSA scanners and Islam

It's rather hard to wear a seat belt on a bicycle. I don't have car, not even a drivers license, because i simply don't need it.

Excuse my ignorance, but what is a ICBM?

Greetings,

Chris
ICBM = Intercontinental Ballistic Missile. Today's ICBM's carry nuclear warheads. The early versions didn't (von Braun of Nazi Germany was instrumental in their design).

I ask if we should all have them, because although the earlier relatives of today's nuke ICBM's (V-2 Rocket) were used extensively during WWII, that was so long ago and since no nuclear ICBM's have ever been used we might as well open them up to the public for use at home. Afterall ... compare the amount of deaths that automobiles cause each year to the amount of death's that a modern ICBM has caused. You will see that ICBM's are must safer and so shouldn't be so heavily regulated, especially since it infringes upon my liberties to keep my hard-at-work-tax-dollars away from me. I mean come on ... am I really going to fire one in Germany's direction?

In other words ... I was using the analogy to point out the apples/oranges difference between comparing fatalities caused from car crashes and fatalities caused from hijacked planes. It has more to do with the damage a single instance can cause, rather than multiple random instances.

And if you ride a bike ... do you wear a helmet? Do you follow the laws that pertain to cyclists? You probably do ... because you want to PREVENT certain things from happening to yourself. Like having your head splattered all over the pavement (and trust me, as a paramedic ... I have seen some amazing things a head can do without a helmet on, even from a low velocity impact). Is it always convenient to stop at red lights? I bet you probably do when there is traffic there. Even though you might prefer to go through them.

The point is ... you are constantly recognizing safety regulations and laws that you both agree with and disagree with. Are these insane to you? Some of them are and some of them aren't. You are right, I believe, in that a line has to be drawn at some point ... but at what point? Would you be content with a public opinion vote? If the majority prefers things you don't find agreeable, will you tolerate them and "agree to disagree" so to speak?
 
Name one car accident that killed 3000 people. Just one.

If only we had a "Car Accident TV" live and in colour via cable or satellite...

Cops will never catch all the criminals. So let's just do away with cops!

Strawman on a slippery slope, much? I don't know about other countries but in Germany laws have to follow the principle of Proportionality.

Most people who die in cars die from a thing called an "accident."

Accidents caused by what or whom?

It's a fact that is irrelevant. Here's another fact: vending machines kill more people than sharks! Should we just now never ever look out for sharks near beaches until we have a nationwide Vending Machine Watch Force?

Strawman, again. Tsk, Tsk. It rarely is a black or white issue, haven't you realised, yet?

So your solution is to make it as easy as possible for them to do it? You really are a closet anarchist aren't you? Or is your point that we should revert to total fascism?

Seriously, with all the straw around you, don't light a match.


If I'm there I'm tackling you because I have nothing to lose. Either it's a fake bomb, in which case I'm safe and you are heading for a beating, or it's real and you blow me up there or get into the cockpit and kill me when we hit the target.

And if I'd lived in the 1930's I would have killed Hitler. Ooops, Godwin'd the thread. :blush:


The laws are only stupid to you. You seem to think all attempts at law and order are pointless. Perhaps you should immigrate to Somalia?

You seem to want to apply for the MdC.


Wrong. We regulate cars to the best of our ability. But, as you noted, the people that die in them mostly die from "accidents." A completely different thing from "homicide."

Yes, all car accidents are caused by destiny. Or random fluctuations in the space-time-continuum. Or whatever. Humans, however, are never involved.

It's only a number to you because you seem to have a complete misunderstanding of what those numbers mean.

I'm waiting with bated breath for you to explain how 3000 people killed on 9/11 are worse than 3000 people killed by car accidents in one year.

Wrong. The day one car can be easily used to kill 3000 people is the day your point has any relevance.

If acquiring the skills to fly a plane into a building will become as easy as getting a driver's license, you might have point.

I'm telling you, Somalia. There you can live out your anarchist fantasies. Rule your hovel as a King!

Whatever you do, don't smoke.

And, get this, they also regulate explosives! I mean how much do we explosive hoarders have to "suffer" because of a "few crazy people?" :rolleyes:

Explosives don't kill people, people kill people!

Yes, through law and order. Something the Sumerians figured out 7000 years ago.

Did it work for them?

In bizarro world your ideas have merit. Otherwise those 7000 years since the Sumerians prove you wrong.

They are not around to testify anymore, are they?

Write me from Somalia and we will see how "hard it is to understand."

Radio Eskarina now playing "Man of Straw" by Sad Lovers & Giants.
 
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If only we had a "Car Accident TV" live and in colour via cable or satellite...

Be thankful you don't get Fox in Germany.

Strawman on a slippery slope, much? I don't know about other countries but in Germany laws have to follow the principle of Proportionality.

So you don't think terrorism isn't a big deal....and what does the law of proportionality have to do with it?

Accidents caused by what or whom?

  • Driver inattention
  • intoxication
  • wildlife
  • weather
  • recklessness
  • medical issues

Was that a serious question? :rolleyes:

Strawman, again. Tsk, Tsk. It rarely is a black or white issue, haven't you realised, yet?

He kept going about car accident deaths as if it had any relevance to the issue. Here's a fact, it has absolutely nothing to do with this issue. When he stops harping on it I'll stop calling it what it is: idiotic. :mad:


Seriously, with all the straw around you, don't light a match.

Not a strawman as I'm not the one that issued the ridiculous statement that terrorists, "can not be stopped. No matter what."

And if I'd lived in the 1930's I would have killed Hitler. Ooops, Godwin'd the thread. :blush:

So you think that my reaction, post Sept 11th, is wrong or.....was there no point in your statement?

You seem to want to apply for the MdC.

If you read to the end of his post you'll see he argues exactly that.

Yes, all car accidents are caused by destiny. Or random fluctuations in the space-time-continuum. Or whatever. Humans, however, are never involved.

Hmmm, it's almost as if I stated that car accidents were unavoidable....and as if you ignored me pointing out the distinction between "accidents" and "homicides."

I'm waiting with bated breath for you to explain how 3000 people killed on 9/11 are worse than 3000 people killed by car accidents in one year.

People dying every day from accidents is a normal function of life in a modern society. We accept it. Being murdered by some lunatic for an irrational religious cause is not. It's why we get more upset over someone being murdered than over someone who just fell down the stairs and broke their neck.

If acquiring the skills to fly a plane into a building will become as easy as getting a driver's license, you might have point.

You're kidding right? Simulations have proved that flying a plane into a building is something almost anyone can do. Sort of like getting a drivers license in Texas where you pretty much just have to prove you are alive, 16 years old and live in Texas.

Did it work for them?

"The Sumerian civilization spanned over 3000 years and began with the first settlement of Eridu in the Ubaid period (mid 6th millennium BC) through the Uruk period (4th millennium BC) and the Dynastic periods (3rd millennium BC) until the rise of Babylonia in the early 2nd millennium BC. Sumer was the birthplace of writing, the wheel, agriculture, the arch, the plow, irrigation and many other things."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumer

Yeah, I'd say it did.

They are not around to testify anymore, are they?

Only their zombies! :eye-poppi

Radio Eskarina now playing "Man of Straw" by Sad Lovers & Giants.

Is the next song "Defending Anarchists?"
 
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Be thankful you don't get Fox in Germany.

We did, right after 9/11 when Fox seemed to have bought some time on the Astra satellite. Vilest thing I've ever seen. When my SO saw it first, he thought it was comedy.

So you don't think terrorism isn't a big deal....and what does the law of proportionality have to do with it?

You're right; I don't consider terrorism to be such a big deal and my empathy for someone who died because of a terrorist act is about the same as for someone who was killed by a drunk-driver. And the principle of proportionality has everything to do with the subject.

I started a point-by-point reply, but I realised it's useless. Just this: How much are you willing to give up to fight "terrorism"? How do you define "terrorism"?

Counting down the seconds until I get accused of being a "terrorist sympathiser". Or an anarchist. :boxedin:
 
As far as I can tell, Christian's argument is "people die in cars, therefore do away with airport security." Can someone tell me if I've missed anything there?
 
As far as I can tell, Christian's argument is "people die in cars, therefore do away with airport security." Can someone tell me if I've missed anything there?

I read his arguments as "people can learn how to fly planes into a building on the Internets, let's NOT shut down the tubes."

Has Reading and Comprehension gone out of fashion, or what? :rolleyes:
 
Oh be quiet. If the best you're going to come back with is feeble insults, then go and amuse yourself elsewhere.
 
Oh be quiet. If the best you're going to come back with is feeble insults, then go and amuse yourself elsewhere.

Oooh, argumentum via intimidation. Colour me impressed, Hammer. Whatever that colour is. :cool:
 
I'm not trying to intimidate you, I'm trying to get... actually, I'm trying to get Christian to explain himself. I don't know why you decided to chime in with feeble insults.
 
I'm not trying to intimidate you, I'm trying to get... actually, I'm trying to get Christian to explain himself. I don't know why you decided to chime in with feeble insults.


It's a fairly free forum and I felt the urge to reply to your rather asinine
As far as I can tell, Christian's argument is "people die in cars, therefore do away with airport security." Can someone tell me if I've missed anything there?

That's why I chimed in. You were asking for it. Sorry you didn't like my answer. :p
 
As far as I can tell, Christian's argument is "people die in cars, therefore do away with airport security." Can someone tell me if I've missed anything there?

No, that is not my argument. Yes, you missed the argument completely. Here it is again, dumbed down as much as i can:

A lot of people get killed by other people through things that are allowed, like said cars. Note: It is not the car that kills someone, but the driver. Yes, there are accidents whose circumstances can not be controlled by the driver. But most of the deadly accidents happen because the driver does _not_ behave as she/he should when driving a car: being drunken, speeding, etc.

In comparison only few people die because terrorists fly planes into buildings. However, because of these terrorists the rightful people have to endure more and more invasions into their private lives.

The efforts and money put into that anti-terror fight have little benefit in return, compared to deaths caused by other people through means of otherwise legal things.

Oh, and i did _not_ say that terrorist as such can not be stopped. I explicitly talk about the ones who are willing and prepared to die for their cause. These are the most dangerous ones, because they have nothing to lose anymore.

Imagine all the efforts and money spent in this fight would be spent to actually educate and help people in the middle/near east. That would be far more effective, if done correctly, because it would dry out the source of the problem.

If i go on a plane, i already accept the risk of getting killed, by something as mundane as a plane crashing due to some malfunction. Which, by the way, also happens far more often than some terrorist flying a plane into a building.

There is nothing wrong with attempting to stop them. But just not at all costs. There are far more problems a society has to master.

Was that clear enough now? If not, i'm sorry but then i can't help you.

Greetings,

Chris
 
ICBM = Intercontinental Ballistic Missile. Today's ICBM's carry nuclear warheads. The early versions didn't (von Braun of Nazi Germany was instrumental in their design).

I ask if we should all have them, ....

[...snip...]

In other words ... I was using the analogy to point out the apples/oranges difference between comparing fatalities caused from car crashes and fatalities caused from hijacked planes. It has more to do with the damage a single instance can cause, rather than multiple random instances.

So, you think that i want to have people to legally get thing that are _by_design_ used only to kill people? No, i do not want that, and that is nothing that i have implied. I am also against people having guns, for example.

However, airplanes are not meant to be WMD's. It is just that they can be abused for that. But then, a lot of legal things can be abused to kill people.

And no, it does not make a difference that a single plane can kill more people at once than a single something else. What's important is the overall number of people getting killed.

It simply does not make much sense to scream "I want security to avoid people getting killed" in one case that is extremely rare to happen anyways, but in turn being just fine with with the other cases of people getting killed. At least not if that supposed gain in security causes massive intrusions into the privacy of people, and if it puts governments into the position to see their citizens as potential terrorists by default.

And if you ride a bike ... do you wear a helmet? Do you follow the laws that pertain to cyclists? You probably do ... because you want to PREVENT certain things from happening to yourself. Like having your head splattered all over the pavement (and trust me, as a paramedic ... I have seen some amazing things a head can do without a helmet on, even from a low velocity impact). Is it always convenient to stop at red lights? I bet you probably do when there is traffic there. Even though you might prefer to go through them.

You miss one point in all that: It is one thing if i decide for myself to be careful, and if i obey regulations that help to make things safer but that do not intrude my privacy. It is a completely other thing if extreme measures are forced upon me, my privacy invaded in very basic every-day things, for essentially very little security gain, if any at all.

Greetings,

Chris
 
I think (Christian) you might still be looking at it from a standpoint of "9/11 was bad to the USA ... so the rest of the world has to view it as bad also" etc.

I don't think that's the point we are trying to make, although I can't speak for others obviously.

I understand why you keep mentioning auto accidents ... but I don't think you're understanding why a plane is POTENTIALLY more harmful.

If 9/11 had happened anywhere (doesn't matter whether it's the US or not), and a similar impact on that country was the result, I would be willing to bet the ripple effects would be similar. Why?

* the massive loss of life from a single incident
* the crippling damage to a specific area
* the unpredictable strain/damage to the economy
* the effect on public fears/infrastructure

When you measure the mortality and financial impact and long-term effects something like 9/11 had ---- compared to the overall amount of auto accidents and their impact ---- I would be willing to guess that measuring one automobile accident to one plane crashing into a major metropoliton building is pennies to a vault full of gold. In other words, it would take hundred if not thousands of automobile accidents over a specific amount of time to equal the amount of damage a single plane can cause.

As a result ---- it would be nice to DETER and try to PREVENT a repeat of that incident. It doesn't matter that it happened in the USA. It's true obviously that hijacking isn't new, and neither is crashing planes ... but seeing the "success" that an organization had with their efforts in the new method that was used (9/11) sheds light to new ideas on how to use planes as weapons in ways that weren't thought of before, or were unsuccessful when attempted. If just two more planes were hijacked and used in a similar manner ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD .... the resultant security measures would be immense and the comparisons to auto accidents would start to pale.

In some ways, it's like trying to prevent copycats. And also ... keep in mind ... it is also about financial pressure from a public that would react in fear. That's counted as part of the overall impact/damage. Feeling safe makes some people want to fly who would otherwise be reluctant .... thus keeping airlines in business .... thus keeping ticket prices lower. Make people more afraid to fly, and companies go out of business, and your ticket price skyrockets. Is that what you would prefer as well?

It's not just about loss of life alone ... it's overall damage --- in which public opinion/fear/behavior is a factor as well. In this sense, I believe comparing it to auto accidents is apples to oranges.
 
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I think (Christian) you might still be looking at it from a standpoint of "9/11 was bad to the USA ... so the rest of the world has to view it as bad also" etc.

I don't think that's the point we are trying to make, although I can't speak for others obviously.

No, that's certainly not my point of view. Using planes as weapons is just sick, no matter where it happens. It _is_ bad, no doubt about that.

I understand why you keep mentioning auto accidents ... but I don't think you're understanding why a plane is POTENTIALLY more harmful.

If 9/11 had happened anywhere (doesn't matter whether it's the US or not), and a similar impact on that country was the result, I would be willing to bet the ripple effects would be similar. Why?

* the massive loss of life from a single incident
* the crippling damage to a specific area
* the unpredictable strain/damage to the economy
* the effect on public fears/infrastructure

When you measure the mortality and financial impact and long-term effects something like 9/11 had ---- compared to the overall amount of auto accidents and their impact ---- I would be willing to guess that measuring one automobile accident to one plane crashing into a major metropoliton building is pennies to a vault full of gold. In other words, it would take hundred if not thousands of automobile accidents over a specific amount of time to equal the amount of damage a single plane can cause.

Yes, it is pretty obvious that a single plane crash, even if the plane just crashes over some empty land, costs a lot of lives. That's the risk that is involved in putting a lot of people onto a single vehicle.

That crashing a plane into a building has a big impact, is also pretty clear. But, and here is the problem that i see in your logic when you say that "measuring one automobile accident to one plane crashing into a major metropoliton building is pennies to a vault full of gold".

If we are to argue about the overall impact, you can not compare a single car accident to a single incident of a plane crashing into a building. If anything, you have to look at the total of one year, for example. And then it becomes pretty clear that other things cause a lot of bad stuff as well. Car's are just an example i have chosen because they are so common and there are solid statistics about the deaths caused by them (or their drivers).

The point regarding fear is indeed a valid one. But that goes into psychology as well, and i have little knowledge of that when it comes to many people at once. But i think that there is the effect of a single incident causing a lot of harm, which the people will notice much easier because of the dimension of it. On the contrary, people care little about things like car accidents. If they see one, they only see a few people involved, usually.

As a result ---- it would be nice to DETER and try to PREVENT a repeat of that incident. It doesn't matter that it happened in the USA. It's true obviously that hijacking isn't new, and neither is crashing planes ... but seeing the "success" that an organization had with their efforts in the new method that was used (9/11) sheds light to new ideas on how to use planes as weapons in ways that weren't thought of before, or were unsuccessful when attempted. If just two more planes were hijacked and used in a similar manner ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD .... the resultant security measures would be immense and the comparisons to auto accidents would start to pale.

Of course it should be tried to prevent that from happening again. I simply think that this should not be done at any price. Airlines do not check every single component and screw and stuff before a plane takes off. While they do extensive checking and service (well, most do), they also consider what is an useful amount of checking, and at what point it would be "overdoing" it.

In some ways, it's like trying to prevent copycats. And also ... keep in mind ... it is also about financial pressure from a public that would react in fear. That's counted as part of the overall impact/damage. Feeling safe makes some people want to fly who would otherwise be reluctant .... thus keeping airlines in business .... thus keeping ticket prices lower. Make people more afraid to fly, and companies go out of business, and your ticket price skyrockets. Is that what you would prefer as well?

Well, i think that there is a major impact by all these excessive security. It puts the people in constant fear. People will start to suspect that some harmless bloke is a potential terrorist just because he looks different. They are always reminded about the supposed threat at any moment.

Again, it is not only security checks at airports. It is sniffing in phone and internet connections, storing who connected whom or what. It is about recording each and any financial transaction. It is about spying on each and everyone just in the name of anti-terror laws. IMHO they abuse the whole anti-terror stuff to push things through that otherwise would have no chance.

Airport security scan's are simply the most obvious and visible things related to that. But they are also only a rather small part of the overall things done.

That's what i mean when i say that the things implemented in the name of anti-terror are not justified compared to the results.

It's not just about loss of life alone ... it's overall damage --- in which public opinion/fear/behavior is a factor as well. In this sense, I believe comparing it to auto accidents is apples to oranges.

As i said above, i have little knowledge about the psychological reactions of "masses" to such things. It is my point of view that such thing get easily exaggerated because they are simply more "impressive" than all the little things. If people would be made more aware of the risks of participating in traffic, for example, they would start to think differently about that. And by "made more aware" i mean the same level of reporting, news coverage, etc. that is done with terrorism. Imagine each and every accident would result in a 1 hour programme about it. Followed by another two hours about the now increased overall number of people killed, the impact on economy, etc.

I'm simply not willing to give up my privacy, and having me suspected as a terrorist by default, just because of some religious fanatics. Doing so would simply mean that they have won. I do not want to live in constant fear of an terror attack because there simply is no reason to do so.

Greetings,

Chris
 
It's a fairly free forum and I felt the urge to reply to your rather asinine

That's why I chimed in. You were asking for it. Sorry you didn't like my answer. :p
It's not a matter of liking or disliking, it's pointing out that your reply was part irrelevance and part insult. You are of course free to post what you want, but don't be surprised if people call you on posting rubbish.
So, you think that i want to have people to legally get thing that are _by_design_ used only to kill people?
Oh good. Let's not simplify the discussion, let's go for massive walls o' text. Ok, game on. First off, this sentence doesn't make sense. The word "to" is used at least once too often. Not sure what you're trying to say, so let's crack on.
No, i do not want that, and that is nothing that i have implied. I am also against people having guns, for example.
Don't care. Planes.
However, airplanes are not meant to be WMD's. It is just that they can be abused for that. But then, a lot of legal things can be abused to kill people.
Excellent, we're getting back to the point.
And no, it does not make a difference that a single plane can kill more people at once than a single something else. What's important is the overall number of people getting killed.
I'm sure we'll get back to airport scanners soon...
It simply does not make much sense to scream "I want security to avoid people getting killed" in one case that is extremely rare to happen anyways,
So how many times do 3000 people have to be killed at once before we think "Hmm, maybe we should find a way to prevent this?"
but in turn being just fine with with the other cases of people getting killed.
Please, keep telling me how I think. Maybe you can point out where I said I was fine with people dying in car accidents.
At least not if that supposed gain in security causes massive intrusions into the privacy of people, and if it puts governments into the position to see their citizens as potential terrorists by default.
By jove, we're back at the point! In what way is checking people don't have weapons a "massive intrusion of privacy"? What do you think is going to happen when people pass through these scanners?
You miss one point in all that: It is one thing if i decide for myself to be careful, and if i obey regulations that help to make things safer but that do not intrude my privacy. It is a completely other thing if extreme measures are forced upon me, my privacy invaded in very basic every-day things, for essentially very little security gain, if any at all.
I don't care how careless you personally are until such time as your carelessness impacts on my safety. You objecting to airport security has the potenial to harm other people. Simplified version: it ain't just about you.
 
What do you think is going to happen when people pass through these scanners?

How are the scanners going to stop my scenario I painted? And I have no problem with the scanners themselves; let the nudity commence!

In fact, I am putting this to you; the placing of the scanners makes you less safe from people with those kind of ideas, as it will, after a time, give the airport a false sense of security.

Security is not a machine thing. It never is. It is a human thing. If someone wants to use an airplane to wreak havoc, they will.

But if I were a terrorist I would now take another rather unprotected system in society and abuse that to kill a lot of people.

After all, the killing is just a by-product of what a terrorist is really after; terror and fear.
 
How are the scanners going to stop my scenario I painted? And I have no problem with the scanners themselves; let the nudity commence!
Didn't your scenario rely on an airline pilot letting you into the cockpit even though they're not allowed to? We've already stopped your scenario. We don't need to keep coming up with new and exciting ways of dealing with a solved problem.
In fact, I am putting this to you; the placing of the scanners makes you less safe from people with those kind of ideas, as it will, after a time, give the airport a false sense of security.
Why is it a false sense of security?
Security is not a machine thing. It never is. It is a human thing. If someone wants to use an airplane to wreak havoc, they will.
Yes. Without guns and knives. It doesn't matter how determined an unarmed man is if a bunch of passengers beat the bejeesus out of him.
But if I were a terrorist I would now take another rather unprotected system in society and abuse that to kill a lot of people.
So the precautions are achieving their intended goal: air travel is safer.
After all, the killing is just a by-product of what a terrorist is really after; terror and fear.
And yet you have a problem with people feeling secure. I'm really not convinced you've thought this through.
 
Didn't your scenario rely on an airline pilot letting you into the cockpit even though they're not allowed to? We've already stopped your scenario. We don't need to keep coming up with new and exciting ways of dealing with a solved problem.

Just on my last U.S. flight a kid and his dad were allowed into the cockpit.

What is solved again? The human equation? Reread the scenario.

Why is it a false sense of security?
Yes. Without guns and knives. It doesn't matter how determined an unarmed man is if a bunch of passengers beat the bejeesus out of him.

Yes, they are fast enough running from coach to the cockpit. Please reread.

So the precautions are achieving their intended goal: air travel is safer.

Only from one attack vector. To make it really safer you would have to act as I stated below my scenario; treat your travellers as prisoners.


And yet you have a problem with people feeling secure. I'm really not convinced you've thought this through.

I have a problem with painting the scanners as a be-all and end-all of security.

You on the other hand, have a problem in not wanting to acknowledge that machines can never catch a determined person wanting to do harm.

Attack vectors include:

Slow attacks over years (i.e. simple infiltration, bribery, owning a pilot with debts).

Booking the whole of the first class with people of likeminded persuasion; which has the added benefit that multiple component explosives can be made on-board. No need to hide anything in your pants, just having a few drops of one of them is enough.

Doing a charter flight.

Airguns made by a piece of plastic pipe and an a capsule of compressed gas (the scanners resolution is not really that good).

Want me to go on?

Btw. How often *do* you fly internationally? It sounds to me as if it is not very often.
 
So once again it comes down to "this one thing can't solve all problems, so why bother." I simply don't see how this logic works. To borrow Christian's beloved car analogy, it's like saying "Ok, airbags help in a collision, but what if the petrol tank explodes? Therefore airbags are an unnecessary inconvenience."
 
So once again it comes down to "this one thing can't solve all problems, so why bother."

Wow... you just skim over posts... don't you?



I simply don't see how this logic works. To borrow Christian's beloved car analogy, it's like saying "Ok, airbags help in a collision, but what if the petrol tank explodes? Therefore airbags are an unnecessary inconvenience."

No. The discussion is whether the argument should be a fully-covering 'it makes airtravel safer, so all who object stfu' versus an honest 'with this equipment there is a lessened chance that people can bring foreign objects on the plane that are designed to do harm'.

As for the last one, I do agree with. But it would also open the TSA for valid arguments to provide alternatives for people that have valid reasons not to want to go through such a scanner.
 

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