Truth, Justice, and All That Stuff

[Regnad Kcin]

True, Mr. Quayle did not yell, but isn't that a bit of a distinction without a difference?

 

[gumboot]

Why didn't the movie producers finish the line? They're in it with the islamofashists!

You mean Hollywood has allied with the deadly (yet stunningly beautiful) para-military Islamic fundamentalist fashion model suicide-squad? (Zoolander is their holy doctrine).

The world is doomed.

-Andrew

 

[Art Vandelay]

True, Mr. Quayle did not yell, but isn't that a bit of a distinction without a difference?

That's hardly the only inaccuracy.

 

[Regnad Kcin]

This reminds me of Dan Quail yelling at Murphy Brown for having a child out of wed-lock.

Are you often reminded of fictional events?

So, aside from the fact that Mr. Quayle didn't "yell," and the spelling of his name above, what other inaccuracies are there?

 

[Art Vandelay]

"Quail", "yelling", "at Murphy Brown", and "for having a child out of wed-lock" are all inaccurate. In fact, if one considers the word "remind" to be properly applied only to things that actually happened, then the entire sentence is wrong.

 

[Regnad Kcin]

Wel, Mr. Quayle certainly had something to say about the "Murphy Brown" television series storyline at the time.

It would seem SPQR's point was that one real person's revealing his discontent over a fictional, mass-market character's behavior today is quite similar to another real person's revealing his discontent over a fictional, mass-market character's behavior from some time ago. Seems clear enough to me.

Why the pedantry?

 

[Art Vandelay]

Ah, yes, pointing out that a claim is completely and utterly wrong is "pedantry". Even when that claim is part of an effort to use deception to discredit a point of view, we should just ignore it. Even when there's a comparison to a completely different situation.

 

[Regnad Kcin]

Fictional television character Murphy Brown exhibits behavior (by way of the show's writer(s)) that a prominent real member of the public (VP Dan Quayle) takes vocal issue with.

Fictional movie character Perry White exhibits behavior (by way of the screenwriters) that a prominent real member of the public (Bill O'Reilly) takes vocal issue with.

You'll forgive me if I don't see how the latter is a, to use your words, "completely different situation."

Also, who is using "deception to discredit a point of view?" And what is their deception?

 

[Art Vandelay]

Fictional television character Murphy Brown exhibits behavior (by way of the show's writer(s)) that a prominent real member of the public (VP Dan Quayle) takes vocal issue with.

Fictional movie character Perry White exhibits behavior (by way of the screenwriters) that a prominent real member of the public (Bill O'Reilly) takes vocal issue with.

You'll forgive me if I don't see how the latter is a, to use your words, "completely different situation."

Merely listing similarities doesn't make things similar. And it certainly doesn't help that your "similarities" are inaccurate. Dan Quayle did base his criticism on Murphy Brown's behavior, he simply presented as an example of a wider problem. Perry White didn't really "exhibit behavior"; he just made an off-hand remark. Do you really see no difference between playing around with a catchphrase, and playing around with your child's life? There's also the issue of O'Reilly's accuracy.

Also, who is using "deception to discredit a point of view?" And what is their deception?

The deception is rewriting what Quayle said. Instead of actually addressing his point, liberals simply create a strawman.

 

[Ausmerican]

Of course Billdo could have looked at it another way.

As kids growing up in Australia we always thought the line "Truth, Justice and the American Way" was kind of weird as it implied that the American way was something quite different and seperate from truth and justice.

Billdo could have looked at it as the writer and director saw it the same way and therefore changed the line but of course he couldn't have had a mindless rant then.

 

[Regnad Kcin]

Merely listing similarities doesn't make things similar.

Oooo-kay.

They're quite similar enough for there to be a humorous little parallel. As I demonstrated.

And it certainly doesn't help that your "similarities" are inaccurate.

My similarities are right on the money.

Wait, I know... Murphy's a girl and Perry's a boy. That's it, isn't it?

Dan Quayle did base his criticism on Murphy Brown's behavior, he simply presented as an example of a wider problem.

That sentence makes no sense. Please clarify.

Perry White didn't really "exhibit behavior"; he just made an off-hand remark.

Correct. He made an off-hand remark. Which a certain real-life pundit (and who knows how many others) considers revelatory vis-a-vis the dismissive attitudes of the three credited screenwriters (not to mention the producers) towards what the remark left out. Speaking, omitting, and communicating are all verbs. Which denote action. And behavior is an action.

Main Entry: behavior
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: manner
Synonyms: act, action, address, air, attitude, bag*, bearing, carriage, code, comportment, conduct, convention, course, dealings, decency, decorum, deed, delivery, demeanor, deportment, ethics, etiquette, expression, form, front, guise, habits, management, mien, mode, morals, nature, observance, performance, practice, presence, propriety, ritual, role, routine, savoir-faire, seemliness, social graces, speech, style, tact, talk, taste, tenue, tone, way, ways

Bolding mine.

http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/behavior

Do you really see no difference between playing around with a catchphrase, and playing around with your child's life?

Murphy Brown was not "playing around with" a child's life. It was make-believe. Just like Superman.

There's also the issue of O'Reilly's accuracy.

...which, if you don't note the specific issue, is difficult to address.

The deception is rewriting what Quayle said. Instead of actually addressing his point, liberals simply create a strawman.

On May 19, 1992, Quayle gave a speech to the Commonwealth Club of California on the subject of the Los Angeles riots. In this speech Quayle blamed the violence in L.A. on a decay of moral values and family structure in American society. In an aside, he specifically cited the fictional title character in the television program Murphy Brown as an example of how popular culture contributes to this "poverty of values", saying: "It doesn't help matters when primetime TV has Murphy Brown—a character who supposedly epitomizes today's intelligent, highly paid, professional woman—mocking the importance of fathers, by bearing a child alone, and calling it just another 'lifestyle choice.'"

Bolding mine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Quayle

Setting aside the question of whether Mr. Quayle was accurate in his criticism with regard to Murphy actually calling her single-woman pregnancy "just another lifestyle choice" (doubtful, I think), what about his words above did the big, bad liberals so misuse?

 

[SPQR]

Wow.

I really didn't plan for my little comment to cause such a a debate, but thanks for the backup, Regnad, just the same.

I don't even directly remember the event in question, I don't even think I was in school yet. I just remember my parents and I think it was I Love the 80s on VH1 talking about it.

 

[Regnad Kcin]

Wow.

I really didn't plan for my little comment to cause such a a debate, but thanks for the backup, Regnad, just the same...

Well who could've predicted it would?

And you're welcome.

 

[UserGoogol]

"Quail", "yelling", "at Murphy Brown", and "for having a child out of wed-lock" are all inaccurate. In fact, if one considers the word "remind" to be properly applied only to things that actually happened, then the entire sentence is wrong.

Dan Quayle, as part of a speech about the corrosion of "family values," said the following in a stern but not especially loud tone: "It doesn't help matters when primetime TV has Murphy Brown, a character who supposedly epitomizes today's intelligent, highly paid professional woman, mocking the importance of fathers by bearing a child alone and calling it just another lifestyle choice."

Yell has a sort of inofficial meaning of "to say something angrily." Just ask any fifteen year old being talked to by their parents and they'll agree. Quite loudly, in fact. In that sense, Quayle was yelling at Murphy Brown because he was making stern criticisms about her and the show which shares that name. He was angry that she was having a child out of wedlock, although this was admittingly part of a larger issue, and the fact that she was having a child out of wedlock was not his whole argument, but rather that it was being presented on the show as being "okay." Therefore, in a sense, he was yelling at Murphy Brown for having a child out of wedlock.

Of course, phrasing it that way is misleading, and the implication is that Quayle is even stupider than he is in reality, and thus it is a sort of ad hominem. Furthermore, the line between technically correct and incorrect is very thin, such as between from Al Gore saying "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet." to saying Al Gore claimed to have invented the Internet. It is very easy to read into the comment about Dan Quayle that he was personally angry at a fictional chracter, and this is of course incorrect and rather insulting to him.