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Trump's tax returns

SuburbanTurkey said:
Beefing up the IRS and going after rich tax cheats isn't some moonshot commie hypothetical.
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Your response to everything is "It's not that crazy" when nobody is saying that it. It's your totally inability to not demand we fight every fight at once.

We've got solid evidence that makes it all but certain that the standing President of the United States has committed massive tax fraud and other monetary crimes.

The first reflexive response from the Trumpers is "But whaddabouta all da other rich people doing the same thing!" whataboutism designed to either excuse or distract us.

Your first reflexive response is "But whaddabouta all da other rich people doing the same thing!" as well and it will accomplish the same levels of excusing and distraction rather you want it to or not.

You are horrible about this. Nothing is ever good enough for you because every battle you're sitting in the corner pissed that we aren't fighting the entire and winning the entire war right now this moment and making sure we all know about it.

I'm sorry that the Allied Victory in WWII didn't also defeat Stalin at the same time. I'm sorry that the polio vaccine didn't also cure cholera. I'm sorry that every solution for anything isn't a perfect solution for everything. Get over it.
 
Breaking my self-imposed silence on political issues to provide a Rush report. I know most people here don't listen to Rush, but they are curious how he and other high profile conservative yappers will respond.

The first words out of his mouth on his radio show today were, if I recall correctly, "They keep recycling this stuff." In other words, his take was that there was nothing to see here and we already knew everything and none of it matters anyway.
 
If Jeff Bezos is a tax cheat, he is smart enough not to run for public office. Presidential nominees are top 1% but pay a lot in taxes and have the ability to divest.

The tax info just paints another picture of a person who may not be able to divest.
 
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SuburbanTurkey said:
Not really seeing a lot of discourse on this, but there's like 0% chance that this kind of tax avoidance isn't extremely common among the wealthy, right?
...
Wide-scale tax evasion by the wealthy seems like an issue that could really drum up popular support that could lead to a political mandate,
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Keep in mind that there is a difference between "tax avoidance" (which involves the use of legal loopholes) and the type of fraud that Trump appears to be engaged in.

When you attempt to equate what Trump is doing to what "all the rich people are doing", you risk portraying Trump as just some sort of smart/savvy businessman rather than the criminal that he is.

There may be a justification for closing various tax loopholes. I think its just a mistake to try to take Trump's criminal actions and use it as a "make the rich pay" campaign talking point.

but I guess I'm just dreaming of a different Democratic Party that actually believed in such things.
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Biden (you, know, the MODERATE democratic candidate) has already proposed increasing corporate taxes and taxes on the wealthy, equalizing taxes paid on wages vs. investments, etc.
 
JoeMorgue said:
Yes both Jeff Bezos and Donald Trump cheat on their taxes.
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Does Bezos cheat on his taxes? I'm sure tax laws are really friendly to him and he's got the best tax lawyers in the universe, but do we have evidence of actual tax fraud by him (Jeff Bezos the individual, not Amazon)?

And what about bank and mortgage fraud, do we make blanket accusations of every rich person about those too?
 
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JoeMorgue said:
Your response to everything is "It's not that crazy" when nobody is saying that it. It's your totally inability to not demand we fight every fight at once.

We've got solid evidence that makes it all but certain that the standing President of the United States has committed massive tax fraud and other monetary crimes.

The first reflexive response from the Trumpers is "But whaddabouta all da other rich people doing the same thing!" whataboutism designed to either excuse or distract us.

Your first reflexive response is "But whaddabouta all da other rich people doing the same thing!" as well and it will accomplish the same levels of excusing and distraction rather you want it to or not.

You are horrible about this. Nothing is ever good enough for you because every battle you're sitting in the corner pissed that we aren't fighting the entire and winning the entire war right now this moment and making sure we all know about it.

I'm sorry that the Allied Victory in WWII didn't also defeat Stalin at the same time. I'm sorry that the polio vaccine didn't also cure cholera. I'm sorry that every solution for anything isn't a perfect solution for everything. Get over it.
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So what are we gonna do about it then? I don't see much of anything happening, much less trying to do everything at once.

Is Pelosi gonna impeach? We know how that will end, but it's probably worth the effort if we are even going to pretend to believe in legislative oversight.

Barr's DOJ sure as **** isn't going to prosecute it. Are we just going to cross our fingers and hope the NY AG goes after it?

I don't see why we can't walk and chew gum at the same time. Does the House have anything better to do?

Segnosaur said:
Keep in mind that there is a difference between "tax avoidance" (which involves the use of legal loopholes) and the type of fraud that Trump appears to be engaged in.

When you attempt to equate what Trump is doing to what "all the rich people are doing", you risk portraying Trump as just some sort of smart/savvy businessman rather than the criminal that he is.

There may be a justification for closing various tax loopholes. I think its just a mistake to try to take Trump's criminal actions and use it as a "make the rich pay" campaign talking point.


Biden (you, know, the MODERATE democratic candidate) has already proposed increasing corporate taxes and taxes on the wealthy, equalizing taxes paid on wages vs. investments, etc.
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Much of this tax avoidance might not be strictly criminal, but might still result in a failed audit and back taxes due to the IRS with fees. There's plenty of grey area between lawful and tax fraud that the IRS can operate in.
 
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timhau said:
Does Bezos cheat on his taxes? I'm sure tax laws are really friendly to him and he's got the best tax lawyers in the universe, but do we have evidence of actual tax fraud by him (Jeff Bezos the individual, not Amazon)?
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Not in the legal sense, most probably not. Oh I'm sure he has an army of accounts and lawyers to get him as close to cheating but stay one toe in legal as possible, but... well let's just say I don't see a NYT expose on Bezos anytime real soon.

Which is again why "OKAY BUT EVERYBODY STOP TALKING ABOUT TRUMP AND TALK ABOUT OTHER RICH PEOPLE TOO!" is a very, very, very bad idea.
 
Hate to jump the gun on Captain Swoop, but wanted to comment on this...

Part of Trump's tweet:
The Fake News Media, just like Election time 2016, is bringing up my Taxes & all sorts of other nonsense with illegally obtained information & only bad intent.

So what is it, is it 'nonsense' (indicating it was somehow made up/inaccurate), or is it 'illegally obtained' (which suggests its accurate)?

Never mind the fact that there is nothing illegal about a media source publishing information they obtain, and since we don't currently know the source, the suggestion that it is 'illegally obtained' is a questionable accusation.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
So what are we gonna do about it then? I don't see much of anything happening, much less trying to do everything at once.
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Of course you don't because your idea of "something happening" only accepts "Uprising"

You don't want change. You want revolution. It's why you reject anyone who wants to fix the system as not pure enough.

You don't care Biden isn't "progressive" enough*. You care that he isn't combative enough. You want him to stand there and waste time reminding all us that "The system was broken the entire time and if you support me you'll be able to tell everyone I toldyaso."

You are far more interested in being proven right about how much things always sucked then you are in making anything better.

*https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/21/opin...t-his-platform-is-progressive-chen/index.html
 
JoeMorgue said:
Not in the legal sense, most probably not. Oh I'm sure he has an army of accounts and lawyers to get him as close to cheating but stay one toe in legal as possible, but... well let's just say I don't see a NYT expose on Bezos anytime real soon.

Which is again why "OKAY BUT EVERYBODY STOP TALKING ABOUT TRUMP AND TALK ABOUT OTHER RICH PEOPLE TOO!" is a very, very, very bad idea.
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Trump is going to say that this is just what rich people do. Having a response to that seems like a good idea. He bragged about not paying taxes back in 2016 during the debate. The details are new, but the broad strokes are old news.

https://www.cnbc.com/2016/09/26/trump-brags-about-not-paying-taxes-that-makes-me-smart.html

Who is out there that is willing to realize Trump is a crook that hasn't done so already? The MAGA types don't care, he's there crooks. Taking real strides to actually curtail tax avoidance by the wealthy breathes fresh life into this stale issue.
 
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JoeMorgue said:
Of course you don't because your idea of "something happening" only accepts "Uprising"

You don't want change. You want revolution. It's why you reject anyone who wants to fix the system as not pure enough.

You don't care Biden isn't "progressive" enough*. You care that he isn't combative enough. You want him to stand there and waste time reminding all us that "The system was broken the entire time and if you support me you'll be able to tell everyone I toldyaso."

You are far more interested in being proven right about how much things always sucked then you are in making anything better.

*https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/21/opin...t-his-platform-is-progressive-chen/index.html
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Giving the IRS a bit more money and a directive is an uprising? I know you think I'm some SR champing at the bit to get shot dead on a barricade, but I'm literally talking about making admin policy at the IRS here. This is as institutional as it gets my man.

Surely I'll be saying some commie **** in some other thread soon enough that you can mock me for there. Don't be so silly in this thread. I'm literally advocating a budget increase in the IRS for the purpose of increasing auditing of the ultra wealthy tax avoiders. This isn't revolutionary.
 
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JoeMorgue said:
Yeah. THE EXACT SAME THING YOU'RE SAYING.
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Seems like having a response to "all the rich kids do it" is a good idea. Like passing a bill through the house that directly impacts people like Trump.

Tax fairness is an idea with broad appeal. This is a layup. It won't pass, because the Republicans, but it gets a bit of dirt on their faces and keeps Trump's fraud in the news longer.

What should Pelosi be doing with this info, if not trying to use a bill to further hilite Trump's hypocrisy? Perhaps my idea is not the best use of the House's time. What else should they be doing on this issue to score points right before the election?
 
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SuburbanTurkey said:
So what are we gonna do about it then? I don't see much of anything happening, much less trying to do everything at once.

Is Pelosi gonna impeach? We know how that will end, but it's probably worth the effort if we are even going to pretend to believe in legislative oversight.

Barr's DOJ sure as **** isn't going to prosecute it.
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Probably not. There is a chance that if Trump loses (which polls suggest is more likely than him winning) that an incoming DOJ under Biden might go after him.

Of course there is a chance that they could pull a Ford/Nixon "We need to move past this/let the country heal", which I think would be a big mistake.
Are we just going to cross our fingers and hope the NY AG goes after it?
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Prosecutors from NY were already going after Trump. Remember the supreme court rulings that Trump's financial records were not protected just because he's president? Remember they are pushing Eric Trump to testify? Trump is still trying to block access to the records (with an accusation that the demands are too broad, but it does not look like the appeals court is too happy with that argument.)

Much of the material that the NYT was analyzing would have become available to prosecutors in NY eventually. (It wouldn't have been made public right away, but they could certainly act on it.) And prosecutors would also have access to information that wasn't available to the NYT (such as compelled testimony, other financial records not associated with taxes, etc.)
 
Segnosaur said:
Probably not. There is a chance that if Trump loses (which polls suggest is more likely than him winning) that an incoming DOJ under Biden might go after him.

Of course there is a chance that they could pull a Ford/Nixon "We need to move past this/let the country heal", which I think would be a big mistake.

Prosecutors from NY were already going after Trump. Remember the supreme court rulings that Trump's financial records were not protected just because he's president? Remember they are pushing Eric Trump to testify? Trump is still trying to block access to the records (with an accusation that the demands are too broad, but it does not look like the appeals court is too happy with that argument.)

Much of the material that the NYT was analyzing would have become available to prosecutors in NY eventually. (It wouldn't have been made public right away, but they could certainly act on it.) And prosecutors would also have access to information that wasn't available to the NYT (such as compelled testimony, other financial records not associated with taxes, etc.)
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Seems very unlikely there is criminal action before the election. At best, the NY AG or new Biden AG can extract vengeance, but Trump needs to lose first.

Again, none of this really impacts the House or the Democratic Party. Whether or not the NY AG is working on this is beyond our control. What should the Democrats who wield political power be doing about this news? Right now, it seems like not much.
 
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