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Trump's Executions Drive

Some versions of Gnosticism decided that the Old Testament God and the New Testament God were two different beings. They were branded as heretics, needless to say.

Old Testament God demanded too much money. "What are you going to do, replace me?" he said. Then they did, with another actor, who they were able to pay much less because they only used him for voiceover work. They got another actor to play his son, and that guy worked super cheaply because he wasn't even an actor, just a carpenter's apprentice. And they killed him off early on then used flashbacks of already-filmed stuff after that. Then the series became "an expanded universe" with saints and such being in a single episode each, but the series ran for centuries. It won a lot of awards at the time, but subsequent viewings really show its age and lack of imagination. People's moms get the DVD set as gifts but really nobody watches it anymore.

The sexy anime reboot version is worth a look, though.
 
Are you talking about this?

No, I was thinking of Mega Star Princess Megumi-Chan Crystal Goddess vs Bible. It's a bit of a loose interpretation, as I don't believe traditional sources ever characterized Christ as a "Deathlord Robot King" or gave him an army of vampires, but I feel it's true to the essential message of Christianity. But I fear we may be straying slightly from the topic.
 
Perhaps the moderators would be so kind as to split this thread? One could be about the OP which was



and the other could be the same old "death penalty bad!" vs "death penalty good!". That one could be placed in "Religion and Philosophy", where it belongs, and there people could mouth the same old old old old old old old old old old tired arguments they've always done whenever a thread mentions executions.
Has Trump given any reason or justification for his decision regarding bringing these executions forward?
 
I don't feel any affinity for your group, since my opposition of death penalty is of practical concern, not outright moral rejection.

No, your opposition is also a moral rejection. You think it is immoral to execute the wrong person. You don't oppose prisons on the basis that it is possible to send the wrong person to prison. Or fines on the basis that it is wrong to fine innocent people, and yet this is obviously a possibility.

So why oppose the death penalty on the basis that you might accidentally execute the wrong person? Answer, because you think there is something morally wrong with killing an innocent person. In other words, a moral rejection. There are people who bite the bullet on this one and say, sure, we sometimes get the wrong person but it is worth it to put down the guilty like the rabid dogs that they are.
 
Has Trump given any reason or justification for his decision regarding bringing these executions forward?

I think it is probably his middle finger to the notion that presidents go out while dishing out pardons to people in prison for minor offences. I think Obama pardoned a bunch of people who were on drug offences, so Trump, in a fit of spite decides he will pardon his co-conspirators, and then execute a bunch of people on death row.
 
No, your opposition is also a moral rejection. You think it is immoral to execute the wrong person.

As far I am concerned, there is pretty big difference between "execution of people is bad, period" and "execution of innocent people is bad", even if in practice end result is same.

So why oppose the death penalty on the basis that you might accidentally execute the wrong person?

Main reason in my case is irreversibility of execution.

Note that for example jailing someone innocent for 20 years is quite bad too - destroying significant portion of his life.
But it is in principle reversible, at least to certain degree - you can free him and give him money as quite crappy substitute for those all wasted years. If he is dead, you cannot do even that.
 
From the ABC link:

As Donald Trump’s presidency winds down, his administration is ratcheting up the pace of federal executions despite a surge of coronavirus cases in prisons, announcing plans for five starting Thursday and concluding just days before the Jan. 20 inauguration of President-elect Joe Biden.
I'm baffled about why they put that in the lede ... is it somehow bad form to execute someone during an epidemic?
 
I know this case went through many court without reprieve but who actually sets the dates for Fed executions? What department? Or is it by a fed judge after all appeals are done?

I also find it weird that the Feds get involved just because the last part of the crime was on their property- but no relations to anything distinctly Federal about it (except the location).
Does that mean if you steal a car in a Post Office parking lot, you get the Feds? Or is it just capital crimes?
 
As far I am concerned, there is pretty big difference between "execution of people is bad, period" and "execution of innocent people is bad", even if in practice end result is same.



Main reason in my case is irreversibility of execution.

Note that for example jailing someone innocent for 20 years is quite bad too - destroying significant portion of his life.
But it is in principle reversible, at least to certain degree - you can free him and give him money as quite crappy substitute for those all wasted years. If he is dead, you cannot do even that.

Sure. But these are moral considerations. And there is nothing wrong with that. It is a moral issue after all.
 
I think it is probably his middle finger to the notion that presidents go out while dishing out pardons to people in prison for minor offences. I think Obama pardoned a bunch of people who were on drug offences, so Trump, in a fit of spite decides he will pardon his co-conspirators, and then execute a bunch of people on death row.
Sorry - that’s just so ****** up it’s barely fathomable for me, and probably the most disgusting thing I’ve ever had to contemplate.

I mean our politicians treat the general public with utter disdain, but that is just beyond sociopathic.
 
From the ABC link:

I'm baffled about why they put that in the lede ... is it somehow bad form to execute someone during an epidemic?


I suppose it requires certain groups of people to meet in person more frequently than they would otherwise.
 
Sorry - that’s just so ****** up it’s barely fathomable for me, and probably the most disgusting thing I’ve ever had to contemplate.

I mean our politicians treat the general public with utter disdain, but that is just beyond sociopathic.

Yep. Well, it seems ex-presidents pardon, or commute the sentences of hundreds, if not thousands (in the case of Obama or LBJ) of people, and they tend to be for a variety of crimes.

Trump has done the same for 45, so far, and many of them look either to be connected to him, or to his "ideology" to the extent such a grand term can be given to the buzzing blooming self-centred confusion of his mind. There's still time for him to do more of course, but if you look at some of those listed on Wikipedia there seems to be a pattern:

Joe Arpaio, former Sheriff of Maricopa County, Arizona, was convicted of contempt of court for refusing to end the practice of "immigrant round ups," and was awaiting sentencing. Pardoned on August 25, 2017.[41]
Sholom Rubashkin, an Iowa meatpacking magnate sentenced to 27 years in prison for bank fraud in 2010. Commuted on December 20, 2017.[42]
Kristian Saucier, a former U.S. Navy sailor pleaded guilty to unauthorized possession and retention of national defense information in 2016, released the following year. Pardoned on March 9, 2018.[43]
Lewis "Scooter" Libby, former chief of staff to the vice president of the United States, convicted of perjury and obstruction of justice in connection with the CIA leak scandal. The sentence was already commuted to time served by President George W. Bush in July 2007, shortly after Libby's conviction. Pardoned on April 13, 2018.[32][44][45]
Jack Johnson, a champion boxer who was convicted in 1913 while traveling with his white girlfriend for violating the Mann Act, which made it illegal to transport women across state lines for "immoral" purposes, released after one year. Posthumously pardoned on May 24, 2018.[46][47][48][49]
Dinesh D'Souza, author and documentary filmmaker, convicted of campaign finance violations in 2014. Pardoned on May 31, 2018.[50][51][52]
Alice Johnson, an unemployed parcel delivery worker and first-time drug offender sentenced to life without parole in 1996 for conspiracy to possess cocaine, attempted possession of cocaine, and money laundering. Commuted on June 6, 2018.[53][54][55][56][57]
Dwight Hammond and Steven Hammond, father and son Oregon ranchers convicted in 2012 of two counts of arson on federal land. Commuted and pardoned on July 10, 2018.[58][59][60][61][62]
Michael Behenna, former United States Army First Lieutenant who was convicted in 2009 of murdering an unarmed prisoner during the Iraq War. Sentenced to 25 years in military prison, paroled in 2014. Pardoned on May 7, 2019.[63]
Conrad Black, a British newspaper publisher convicted in 2007 of fraud and obstruction of justice for scheming to siphon off millions of dollars from the sale of newspapers, spent ​3 1⁄2 years in prison and was deported. Pardoned on May 15, 2019.[64]
Pat Nolan, former California state legislator who pleaded guilty to racketeering in 1994, served 2 years and 2 months in prison. Pardoned on May 16, 2019.[65]
Zay Jeffries, a mining engineer and former Vice President of General Electric. He was convicted in 1948 of violating of the Sherman Antitrust Act of 1890 and fined; died in 1965. Posthumously pardoned by Trump on October 10, 2019.[66]
Mathew L. Golsteyn, a US Army officer who served in the War in Afghanistan. He was accused of murder after the 2010 killing of an unarmed Afghan bomb maker who was a prisoner of war, and the U.S. Army had opened an investigation of him in 2016. Pardoned on November 15, 2019.[67]
Clint Lorance, a former first lieutenant with the 4th Brigade Combat Team, 82nd Airborne Division in the U.S. Army and veteran of the War in Afghanistan. He was convicted on two counts of second-degree murder for ordering soldiers in his platoon to open fire at three men sitting on a motorcycle in southern Afghanistan in July 2012 while his platoon was on combat patrol. During the trial all platoon members testified that the men were sitting, unmoving on a motorcycle while the defendant claimed the motorcycle was approaching at a high rate of speed. He was sentenced to 19 years in prison in August 2013, and sent to Fort Leavenworth. Pardoned on November 15, 2019.[68]
Rod Blagojevich, former Governor of Illinois, was charged with attempting to sell an appointment to the U.S. Senate to succeed President-elect Barack Obama. Was convicted of soliciting bribes, extortion, and wire fraud on June 27, 2011, and sentenced to 14 years in prison. Was commuted to time served on February 18, 2020.[69]
Bernard Kerik, former New York City Police Commissioner, pleaded guilty to tax fraud and perjury in 2010 for concealing apartment renovations paid for by a contractor that the city had blacklisted because of suspected ties to organized crime. Was sentenced to four years in prison in 2010; was released in May 2013. Pardoned on February 18, 2020.[69]
Roger Stone, a longtime political operative and friend of Donald Trump, was convicted in November 2019 on charges of witness tampering, obstructing an official proceeding, and five counts of making false statements in the course of inhibiting the investigation of the Trump campaign by Robert Mueller. He was sentenced to 40 months in prison, but on July 10, 2020, President Trump commuted the sentence before Stone reported to prison.[70]
Susan B. Anthony, suffragist and long-time proponent and organizer for women's suffrage in the United States who was convicted of voting in the 1872 election. Posthumously pardoned on August 18, 2020, the 100th anniversary of the ratification of the 19th Amendment to the Constitution of the United States which gave American women the right to vote.[71][72] The president of the National Susan B. Anthony Museum and House wrote to "decline" the offer of a pardon on the principle that, to accept a pardon would wrongly "validate" the trial proceedings in the same manner that paying the $100 fine would have.[73][74]
Michael Flynn, retired United States Army lieutenant general and the 25th National Security Advisor. Flynn withdrew his original guilty plea for making false statements to the FBI, and federal district judge Emmet G. Sullivan had ruled the matter to be placed on hold. Flynn was pardoned on November 25, 2020.[75]
 
//Only semi-related but not worthy of its own thread//

Japan, the only other nation really comparable that still practices the Death Penalty, sentenced a 30 year old man to death for the murders of 9 people yesterday.
 
//Only semi-related but not worthy of its own thread//

Japan, the only other nation really comparable that still practices the Death Penalty, sentenced a 30 year old man to death for the murders of 9 people yesterday.


Actually that one was kind of like noir fiction! Or Dostoyevsky, or something. (I suppose all crime is, though, at one level, even the most sordid ones.)
 

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