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Cont: Trump's Coup - Part 3

W.D.Clinger said:
According to the eponymous loser of this thread, the game isn't over until the loser says it's over.
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That Type of thinking is exactly what's wrong with this country, I live in a world where a hundredth the thickness of a human hair makes a difference, I am forced to live in Reality, I can't believe so many people deny it. It feels like I am Living on a Round rock and the People around me think it's flat and keep trying and Failing to fall off the edge to prove it's flat.
 
At Arizona rally Trump claims white people can't get covid vaccines.
WHAT TRUMP SAID: “The left is now rationing lifesaving therapeutics based on race, discriminating against and denigrating, just denigrating, white people to determine who lives and who dies. If you’re white, you don’t get the vaccine, or if you’re white, you don’t get therapeutics.”
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He also insists he won the election.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/trumps-covid-election-falsehoods-arizona-161713352.html
 
newyorkguy said:
I watched an interview with trump (with Steve Inskeep of NPR) in which trump is adamant, insistent, that in a number of major American cities Joe Biden received more votes in the 2020 election than there are residents. Take one of trump's favorite whipping boys, the city of Detroit. (Wonder why? Look at the demographics, it's made to order for trump.)


trump calls it a "tough problem" but it's all bullcrap. From Reuters:


trump isn't even a good liar. Yet, I read an opinion piece by a European correspondent who wondered, "This is all so infantile, yet trump's supporters take it (and themselves) so seriously." Based on absolute nonsense.
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Agrees to 15 minute interview. Does 7 minutes of lies and hand waving Gish gallop and then walks out. It's almost as if he doesn't want to give any facts and just wants imply that there was fraud by encouraging people to do...something...I didn't quite catch what he wants people to do.

If you look at the numbers, if you look at the findings in Arizona, if you look at what's going on in Georgia, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin, by the way — and take a look at Wisconsin...but look at the ballots themselves...What you really have to do in that report is look at the findings... all you have to do is look at the findings...You ought to take a look at their testimony...When you look at Langhofer...You look at the findings. You look at the number of votes. Go into Detroit and just ask yourself, is it true that there are more votes than there are voters? Look at Pennsylvania. Look at Philadelphia...Well, you take a look at it. You take a look at Detroit...So you take a look at it...because when you look at it, and this is long — is a long way from over. You take a look at what's going on now in Pennsylvania. Take a look at what's going on in Wisconsin. You just take a look...nobody's really gotten a chance to look. Look at the United States Supreme Court...But the ones that are smart — the ones that know, you take a look at. Again, you take a look at how Kari Lake is doing...
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(That is at least half the interview.)
 
Crazy Chainsaw said:
The Republicans will protect him unless they have direct evidence of him being linked to the entry of the Capitol.
.
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Is there any reason to believe the Republicans will not protect Trump if there is direct evidence of being linked to the entry of the capitol?

The Republicans are afraid of him and his followers.

and if neither he nor his followers believe the evidence then their power to primary people remains.
 
W.D.Clinger said:
According to the eponymous loser of this thread, the game isn't over until the loser says it's over.
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Ladewig said:
Is there any reason to believe the Republicans will not protect Trump if there is direct evidence of being linked to the entry of the capitol?

The Republicans are afraid of him and his followers.

and if neither he nor his followers believe the evidence then their power to primary people remains.
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Yes at that point the only thing that can be done is barr him from the Ballot for life under the 14 amendment!
 
Crazy Chainsaw said:
The Republicans will protect him unless they have direct evidence of him being linked to the entry of the Capitol.
This is not a Sane world, don't expect anything sane to be done about the Insurrection.
Half the Government is bat Excrement Crazy, and I have known that for a long time.
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Well the GOP isn't in charge of the DoJ now are they?
 
DevilsAdvocate said:
Agrees to 15 minute interview. Does 7 minutes of lies and hand waving Gish gallop and then walks out. It's almost as if he doesn't want to give any facts and just wants imply that there was fraud by encouraging people to do...something...I didn't quite catch what he wants people to do.

(That is at least half the interview.)
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”Take a look at” has long been one of Trump’s most annoying verbal tics. But it’s also textbook slippery con-speak. It implies without actually stating, leading the listener/reader to make the connective leap while believing they haven’t even taken one step. And he, without batting an eye has a ready defense along the line of, “What, I didn’t accuse anyone of anything.”

Like a magician’s slight of hand, though in Trump’s case the hand is of course miniature.
 
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Crazy Chainsaw said:
Depends on who controls congress and the White House Trump Made the DOJ political he even obstructed the Mueller investigation and got away with it.
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??? What is it about the GOP doesn't control the DoJ that we are cross-talking over?

Sure, if Dump is elected in 2024 he'll just pardon himself and everyone else still in his cult. But we are talking about an indictment much sooner than that. How will a GOP controlled Congress stop that? They can shut down the Jan 6 committee, but they can't put all that evidence back in the bottle.

And I'm not convinced the GOP is going to take back the House. I've seen reports that their gerrymandering is not as complete as they'd need to flip the House. The Democrats still have a reasonable chance if they can get out the vote and if they can promote Biden's accomplishments better than they have. They need to do more message controlling. I hate seeing their incompetence in that area but at the moment it is visible.
 
Regnad Kcin said:
”Take a look at” has long been one of Trump’s most annoying verbal tics. But it’s also textbook slippery con-speak. It implies without actually stating, leading the listener/reader to make the connective leap while believing they haven’t even taken one step. And he, without batting an eye has a ready defense along the line of, “What, I didn’t accuse anyone of anything.”

Like a magician’s slight of hand, though in Trump’s case the hand is of course miniature.
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I think Dump's tactics are more like a steam shovel than slight-of-hand.
 
Thermal said:
You might note that I wasn't referring to their findings/conclusions. I said quite specifically that it was not what *I* call a coup, per *their* criteria.

Looking at their website, I see where the discrepancy lies. They have expanded the definition of a coup from "seizing/wresting power" to general insurrection, including preventing the enacting of any law. By their definition, I'd agree that it was an attempted coup, dissident fueled. But if you expand the definition of "coup" that far, there is no point to the word anymore. That's really the bulk of the debate. "Is coup the right word for this brand of insurrection?" I don't think so, based on the usual meaning, but agree based on the Cline Center's broader one. Does that put us plus or minus in agreement?
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Nonsense. No one changed the definition of 'coup'. Once again:

Coup: 1) a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government.
(Oxford Languages)

Did the insurrectionist suddenly, violently and illegally seize power from Congress, if only temporarily, by taking over the Senate floor and causing Congressmembers plus the VP to evacuate and hide, thereby stopping an election function to transfer power?

Why, yes... yes, they did. You can do the tango, the cha-cha, the waltz, the foxtrot, or join a conga line but you can't tap dance around that try as you might.

From the Cline Center:
To be categorized as a coup, an event must meet the following criteria (which are detailed at greater length in the Coup D’état Project codebook): 1. There must be some person or persons who initiated the coup. 2.The target of the coup must have meaningful control over national policy. 3.There must be a credible threat to the leaders' hold on power. 4.Illegal or irregular means must be used to seize, remove, or render powerless the target of the coup. 5.It must be an organized effort. Quote: As explained in the Cline Center’s provisional statement, the storming of the US Capitol on January 6th clearly met the first three definitional criteria: one or more persons posed a credible threat to the power of the legislative branch to determine national policy. However, it was unclear at that time whether the attackers were trying to merely disrupt the process of governing or were attempting to change who controls the government. It was also unclear whether the assault on the Capitol was spontaneous, or had been organized in advance. Over the past few weeks, Cline Center researchers have reviewed voluminous reporting about the event, including official documents, quotes from participants, and analysis of details in videos and images. This additional evidence clearly demonstrates that the two remaining criteria were met.
1) Stewart Rhodes definitely. Alex Jones, Steve Bannon, Roger Stone, and likely Trump initiated the coup.

2) The target was Congress, Pence, Pelosi, et al. and stopping the certification of an election

3) Were they a credible threat to the above? Yes:
Stewart Rhodes: "“We aren’t getting through this without a civil war,” the group’s leader, Stewart Rhodes, wrote fellow members, according to court documents. “Too late for that. Prepare your mind. body. spirit.”

"Rhodes published a letter on the Oath Keepers’ website “advocating for the use of force to stop the lawful transfer of presidential power,” according to the documents.

Oath Keepers spoke of an arsenal they would keep just a few minutes away and grab if needed. Rhodes is accused of spending $15,500 on firearms and related equipment including a shotgun, AR-15, mounts, triggers, scopes and magazines, prosecutors said." "Oath Keepers staged the guns in hotels just outside of the District of Columbia. Rhodes said they were “QRFs” —military-speak for quick reaction force, according to court papers."
"One of the stacks hunted for House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., but could not find her. Members of Congress were cowering in fear and Pelosi had been sent to a secure location. The siege continued for hours, until law enforcement finally gained control.
“We are acting like the founding fathers” one wrote in the throes of the melee. “Can’t stand down.”
(https://apnews.com/article/capitol-...ewart-rhodes-0c30d5cb0724c623a27f2eb39da20285)

4. Insurrectionists breaking into the Capitol violently, attacking police causing great injury, looting and vandalizing the building and stopping the Congress from fulfilling their duties, even temporarily, was clearly 'illegal and irregular means.

5. It was clearly organized by Rhodes and the Oath Keepers and highly likely by others who will be named later.

So stop your nonsense. Whatever YOUR definition of "coup" is doesn't matter.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
??? What is it about the GOP doesn't control the DoJ that we are cross-talking over?

Sure, if Dump is elected in 2024 he'll just pardon himself and everyone else still in his cult. But we are talking about an indictment much sooner than that. How will a GOP controlled Congress stop that? They can shut down the Jan 6 committee, but they can't put all that evidence back in the bottle.

And I'm not convinced the GOP is going to take back the House. I've seen reports that their gerrymandering is not as complete as they'd need to flip the House. The Democrats still have a reasonable chance if they can get out the vote and if they can promote Biden's accomplishments better than they have. They need to do more message controlling. I hate seeing their incompetence in that area but at the moment it is visible.
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With inflation and high prices fewer Democratic voters will be motivated to vote in 2022 so Republicans make take back the house and senate, it the Democrats are not motivated to get out the Vote.
 
Crazy Chainsaw said:
With inflation and high prices fewer Democratic voters will be motivated to vote in 2022 so Republicans make take back the house and senate, it the Democrats are not motivated to get out the Vote.
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Right. Dems act like the massive voter turnout in 2020 was due to everyone being dismayed with Tump. The reality is, the pandemic is what made that happen. People sitting on their asses, with nothing better to do than vote, lol.

Majority of Voters Used Nontraditional Methods to Cast Ballots in 2020
https://www.census.gov/library/stor...-did-people-use-to-vote-in-2020-election.html

As I have said before, Covid was the Dems savior in 2020. In more ways than one.
 
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Warp12 said:
Right. Dems act like the massive voter turnout in 2020 was due to everyone being dismayed with Tump. The reality is, the pandemic is what made that happen. People sitting on their asses, with nothing better to do than vote, lol.

Majority of Voters Used Nontraditional Methods to Cast Ballots in 2020
https://www.census.gov/library/stor...-did-people-use-to-vote-in-2020-election.html
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What are you basing that claim on? It isn’t supported by the link. I’m not entirely sure why you included the link.
 
Warp12 said:
Right. Dems act like the massive voter turnout in 2020 was due to everyone being dismayed with Tump. The reality is, the pandemic is what made that happen. People sitting on their asses, with nothing better to do than vote, lol.

Majority of Voters Used Nontraditional Methods to Cast Ballots in 2020
https://www.census.gov/library/stor...-did-people-use-to-vote-in-2020-election.html

As I have said before, Covid was the Dems savior in 2020. In more ways than one.
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Fortunately the oil industry usually has a six month Turn around as closed wells and Private Leases are placed back on line.
 
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