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Trump's Coup d'état.

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eerok said:
The army? How have they been supporting Trump? They wouldn't march against state governments or Congress itself, because that would obviously be illegal. I don't think the American military is run by idiots.

Even Mitch has signalled he's done with it. He was ominously silent as the court challenges proceeded, and he would've taken a cheap, questionable victory if one had magically appeared, but an Insurrection Act stunt could never be a win. Mitch plays the long game, and this ain't it.



Maybe one day someone could pull off a big election scam in the US, but I'm confident that it won't be now and it won't be Trump.

ETA: Arguably there have been plenty of election shenanigans to date, but I'm talking about a more direct intervention.
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I thought we were talking about Congress and not the military.
You mentioned political suicide.

Mitch did tell the senators to not object. But there are still scores of Congressfolk behind Trump.

And the MAGA-heads are putting up photos of “disloyal” elected officials with crosshairs. I guess some Congresspeople, governors, secretaries of state ,and such may be a bit hesitant to jump off the Trump train even though it is pretty clear it is heading for the cliff.
 
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Trump's base is both die-hard Republicans who if the GOP nominated the head of Josef Goebbels sewn onto the body of a deep sea angler fish who ran on a campaign of "I'm going to slap you in the face with your own dead dog while I bang your wife on the casket at your mother's funeral" would still vote for them because "The Demmiecrat would be worse..." and sad little perpetual adolescent nihilist who just want to troll the country and don't give a crap about Trump personally.

And the worst part is how much of that base are the same people, switching back and forth between the two mentalities.
 
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The Great Zaganza said:
I agree that it's a counterfactual, but if Trump got very close to beating HRC, closer than Romney or McCain came to beating Obama, then I think Republicans would have been fine with keeping him around, especially after the trouncing the other candidates got from him.
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Has a losing presidential candidate ever become a massive cult figure in their party? Who wasn't one before?

I think second place is still the first loser.

Anything is possible, but a losing Trump playing anywhere near the same role in the party seems unlikely.
 
Ladewig said:
I thought we were talking about Congress and not the military.
You mentioned political suicide.
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Well, I was specifically talking about Trump's potential Insurrection Act stunt, which I think neither Congress nor the military would support. It even appears now that it's too crazy for Trump to attempt.

Ladewig said:
Mitch did tell the senators to not object. But there are still scores of Congressfolk behind Trump.

And the MAGA-heads are putting up photos of “disloyal” elected officials with crosshairs. I guess some Congresspeople, governors, secretaries of state ,and such may be a bit hesitant to jump off the Trump train even though it is pretty clear it is heading for the cliff.
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There's no doubt that Trump's election narratives are causing enormous damage to America, and the folk who rode the coattails of the Tea Party are not above profiting from it any way they can.

I think it'll get worse before it gets better, but it seems the coup has failed for now.
 
eerok said:
Well, I was specifically talking about Trump's potential Insurrection Act stunt, which I think neither Congress nor the military would support. It even appears now that it's too crazy for Trump to attempt.



There's no doubt that Trump's election narratives are causing enormous damage to America, and the folk who rode the coattails of the Tea Party are not above profiting from it any way they can.

I think it'll get worse before it gets better, but it seems the coup has failed for now.
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The coup has failed, this time. I fear there will be other attempts.
 
Cavemonster said:
Has a losing presidential candidate ever become a massive cult figure in their party? Who wasn't one before?

I think second place is still the first loser.

Anything is possible, but a losing Trump playing anywhere near the same role in the party seems unlikely.
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ah, but he would have been the first presidential candidate who won in a landslide, but had it stolen from him in a fake election.
Remember that what Trump did before the November election is exactly what he said four years ago, and what he is saying now is what he would have said if he had lost back then.
That was the official plan, only stymied by the fact that he won (and yet got cheated out of 3 million votes).
 
Cavemonster said:
Has a losing presidential candidate ever become a massive cult figure in their party?
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Yeah. The only way that could possibly happen is if the losing party just refused to accept reality and created an alternative universe where Trump didn't really lose because of a giant conspiracy against him by a shadowy deep state.

And it's a good thing that isn't happening.
 
Craig4 said:
The coup has failed, this time. I fear there will be other attempts.
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I wouldn't be surprised to see some bad things in 2024, especially at state level. The GOP will escalate voter suppression for sure.

You'd almost need to shut down the GOP hard enough to put some protections in place before this happens. I doubt this is possible.
 
eerok said:
I wouldn't be surprised to see some bad things in 2024, especially at state level. The GOP will escalate voter suppression for sure.

You'd almost need to shut down the GOP hard enough to put some protections in place before this happens. I doubt this is possible.
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I think the aggrieved parties might be smart enough to sue BEFORE Laches expires on voter suppression attempts.
 
cosmicaug said:
Absolutely not. Cavemonster is right. Scratch almost any Trump sycophant today & you will find someone who was publicly contemptuous of Trump 4 years ago (including folk like Kelly Anne Conway). You are still correct in saying that the power is not just a matter of holding the presidency but holding the presidency is not a small thing and winning the presidency was how Trump "proved" himself.

Trump was too boring for 24/7. Trump 24/7 can only happen now after he has established a cult of personality —which was not the case before his successful 2016 presidency run.
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Where was she contemptuous of Trump?
 
I think the mythology that the Republicans were more mean/contentious/opposing/whatever to Trump than normal is a dangerous one.

I don't remember the 2016 Republican Primaries being any more or less cutthroat than the 2016 Democratic ones.
 
trustbutverify said:
Where was she contemptuous of Trump?
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Early in the primaries before she was working for him she was backing Cruz. As a talking head, she regularly criticized Trump and served on the board of at least one conservative org that was actively attacking him before he became the clear favorite.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
Sure, but he could have been on Fox and other shows 24/7 on top of his Twitter deluge.
And he would have had Clinton to rant against, something that would also give him space on more reputable shows.
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A big difference is that as president, we had to listen to what he was saying, no matter how stupid it was. And that kind of public exposure will almost inevitably draw in more people who would otherwise have never heard what he had to say. As a losing candidate, pretty much only those who were already in his cult would bother listening to him. He'd be Alex Jones with worse hair.
 
Cavemonster said:
Early in the primaries before she was working for him she was backing Cruz. As a talking head, she regularly criticized Trump and served on the board of at least one conservative org that was actively attacking him before he became the clear favorite.
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I know she initially backed Cruz. But before and after that brief period of time, she was associated with Trump. I don't remember her ever being contemptuous of him.
 
Horatius said:
A big difference is that as president, we had to listen to what he was saying, no matter how stupid it was. And that kind of public exposure will almost inevitably draw in more people who would otherwise have never heard what he had to say. As a losing candidate, pretty much only those who were already in his cult would bother listening to him. He'd be Alex Jones with worse hair.
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I'd love to see Trump kicked off social media after he leaves the White House. This is the Trumpenschadenfreude I'm looking for.
 
trustbutverify said:
I know she initially backed Cruz. But before and after that brief period of time, she was associated with Trump. I don't remember her ever being contemptuous of him.
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Here's a video with a few current Trump supporters including Conway criticizing him.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2018/12/18/trump-allies-past-comments-dons-take-ctn-sot-vpx.cnn

In this video she talks about how he made his money on the backs of the "little guy" accuses him of not paying contractors etc.

That's not the worst thing I've seen her say about him as a talking head, but it was the first one that came up in a search, and it serves the broader point that got us here- Trump has his support because people got behind him when he started winning.
 
Dave Rogers said:
I'm struggling to envisage a scenario in which that doesn't happen.

Dave
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Could be he sees it coming and rage quits twitter before they kick him, trying to take all of his followers to Parler or whatever and predicting Twitter will fail with the loss of his followers.

It's more or less what he's trying to do to Fox (on days they report things he doesn't like).
 
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