Trump's Coup d'état.

[JoeMorgue]

If I shoot you with a gun but I'm a bad shoot, I still tried to murder you.

If you claim that I tried to murder you, I don't get to do a victory lap based on the fact that I couldn't have pulled it off.

This is not complicated.

 

[Cavemonster]

More accurate analogy: he stands on fifth Avenue pointing finger guns and saying "Pew Pew". Still swooning, are you?

Monday: Trump points his finger guns and says "Pew Pew".

Tuessday: A man who had finger guns pointed at him goes into a bank and tries to open an account.

"I'm sorry sir, I can't open an account for you. Our records indicate you're dead"

"What do you mean?"

"It says here that our president shot you yesterday"

"Don't you go by medical records or coroner's reports or something"

'No sir, with all of the lying doctors and coroners have been doing about the China virus, we find it's best just to ignore them and listen to the President"

"But I'm standing here right in front of you!"

'Sir, we wouldn't be a Trump supporting bank if we were amenable to recognizing facts right in front of us. I'm afraid there's nothing we can do"


The position that there is nothing to worry about rests on the faith that there is an invisible hard line over which supporters won't follow Trump, we just haven't hit it yet. And that his power will magically dissipate when the grown-ups officially call the election. Both would be nice, but neither is quite guaranteed.

Given that doctors are reporting people dying on ventilators just after raving that coronavirus is a liberal hoax to hurt the president, I'm hesitant to count on either.

I think you're also either viewing the attempt as more binary than it really is. Either he is unambiguously the president on Jan 20th or nothing. As I said before, if states or even large groups of people refuse to recognize the newly sworn in executive, that can create serious problems. It's still a usurping of power even if it doesn't happen 100%.

I would LIKE to be as satisfied as you that people who've been denying reality for four years will suddenly accept it, but I don't think that outcome is a lock.

 

[Meadmaker]

I of course agree that it is ****** up five ways from Sunday. What I disagree with is that is is anything remotely like a coup.

Every definition of a coup has something like "wresting control" or "seizing power" , bloody or not. In short, you have to have some teeth in there somewhere, be it guns or popular support or something, anything, to make it happen. That's why I think it falls far short of anything coup-ish. Its yapping, being met with a flat "nope" in four-part harmony with feeling.

Getting wound up about impotent bleating is something that seems beneath skeptics. I kind of like being on the side that doesn't get carried away in theatrical fantasy. Shouldn't we be focusing on the things that might be, you know, real?

I agree in part. I think there is no realistic chance that Donald Trump will be President on January 20 at 12:01 pm.

The fact that his pathetic efforts to bring up the subject don't provoke cries of condemnation from every corner still is a cause for sadness and yes, concern.

Even though it's pathetic and doomed to failure, the fact that it isn't meeting universal condemnation is somewhat of a disappointment.

 

[ponderingturtle]

He has no power to do WHAT YOU ARE PROPOSING HE HAS. THE COUP, REMEMBER?

Maybe yes maybe no. He certainly seems to be unwilling to gamble on a successful coup and so is making some effort or is being restrained by others to keep within the bounds of what is legal or at least deniable. That does not mean his attempts at circumventing the democratic process are not an attempt at a coup.

 

[Thermal]

He does have power. He is wielding it incompetently and ineptly. That does not change fact it is coup attempt.



Because this farce weakens USA's democracy (or rather what passes for one in USA), making next coup attempt significantly easier. Some of us are not idiots thinking it is fun popcorn-eating ****show.

That's my point: you guys tilting at his impotent windmill gives this farce the legitimacy he craves.

There is no chance in sight of this having the power to even be dignified with the term "attempted coup". Nothing will come of it but a pitiful orange clown begging for you to give him credibility.

You willing to put your avatar where your mouth is, or are you all bluster too?

 

[JoeMorgue]

Oh well I wasn't aware that "He couldn't do that." Because that changes everything. I forgot Coup's fall under the rules of "Mother May I."

 

[ponderingturtle]

That's my point: you guys tilting at his impotent windmill gives this farce the legitimacy he craves.

If this were a joke, republicans would be laughing at it, they are certainly going to rather extreme lengths to not say that Trump lost.

 

[Thermal]

If I shoot you with a gun but I'm a bad shoot, I still tried to murder you.

If you claim that I tried to murder you, I don't get to do a victory lap based on the fact that I couldn't have pulled it off.

This is not complicated.

And if you impotently stand with finger guns going "Pew Pew", it was never a ******* credible "murder attempt" to start with.

Its even less complicated than you pretend it is.

 

[tyr_13]

Inspiring a couple yahoos with guns (assuming they were the Manchurian Candidates you suppose) is not the force needed to subvert the entire ******* Democratic process.

Seventy-one million voters trusted Trump enough, after all the evil and maladminstration he's done, enough to want him to maintain the highest office in the land.

It isn't a couple of yahoos with guns. Getting a substantial portion of the population to believe moronic lies about the legitimacy of the government is undermining the democratic process. The government only works because we all allow it to, and convincing so many that it's not in their interests to allow it has chaotic, unpredictable, and almost inevitably bad, outcomes.

In proof of which, I offer external reality: the courts and election boards are telling him to go play with his candy corn. Where's all this awesome power I keep hearing about?

Don't care about where you decide the goalposts are, nor your characterizations of the arguments.

He's a lame duck limp dick. Sure he can weild the power of the office and his tweets. But that won't get him a coup. Its imaginary in the face of the facts. The facts are that no one is backing him up. He is alone and whimpering and making a fool of himself in front of the world. I really don't get why the planet isn't enjoying watching these dying throes.

My avatar bet stands. Takers? Or do your own theatrics not convince you enough for even a lowly avatar bet?

Neither respect nor care enough about your bet to even look back to see what it was. You act as if you are entitled to a kind of authority on not just goalposts, but the motivations of others.

The problems of his attempted coup don't disappear because you think 'coup' is the wrong word.

 

[cosmicaug]

You willing to put your avatar where your mouth is, or are you all bluster too?

What kind of bet is this? You are redefining an attempt as being not an attempt if it meets your subjective criteria for being too feeble to count as an attempt. The only way to win that bet would be to have a successful coup attempt (which no one here is even arguing is even a likely thing).

 

[JoeMorgue]

And if you impotently stand with finger guns going "Pew Pew", it was never a ******* credible "murder attempt" to start with.

Its even less complicated than you pretend it is.

I tell you what. I'll put it in terms I KNOW you are familiar with whether you admit it or not.

Trump has picked a pointless, unwinnable hill to die defending simply because he has the kind of ego that won't let anyone tell him he is wrong about anything.

In other words Trump will concede the election right after you drop your end of the stupid, pointless rope about Trump not conceding the election.

 

[Cavemonster]

You willing to put your avatar where your mouth is, or are you all bluster too?

I'm not sure what you're getting at with an avatar bet.

Even the people saying there is a non-zero possibility of a successful Trump coup are saying that it's highly unlikely.

Why would people make a bet for a thing that they think is unlikely to happen? That's not putting your avatar where your mouth is at all.

 

[Thermal]

Seventy-one million voters trusted Trump enough, after all the evil and maladminstration he's done, enough to want him to maintain the highest office in the land.

It isn't a couple of yahoos with guns. Getting a substantial portion of the population to believe moronic lies about the legitimacy of the government is undermining the democratic process. The government only works because we all allow it to, and convincing so many that it's not in their interests to allow it has chaotic, unpredictable, and almost inevitably bad, outcomes.

Yeah, and as I've said over and over, those voters are where the problem lies. Not in make-pretend coups that aren't happening. It's who they are going to pick for their next front man. Im worried sick about a charismatic one that doesn't "seem so bad".

Don't care about where you decide the goalposts are, nor your characterizations of the arguments.



Neither respect nor care enough about your bet to even look back to see what it was. You act as if you are entitled to a kind of authority on not just goalposts, but the motivations of others.

The problems of his attempted coup don't disappear because you think 'coup' is the wrong word.

It's not the wrong word. It's the wrong concept. A coup is a real threat. This ain't **** but a dying soliloquy, and a comical one at that. Could he pull it off? Sure. With about the same chances of the people on my street declaring a junta with kazoos. Imma concern myself with real things, thanks.

At this point though, were just repeatong ourselves. Y'all swoon at his feet. I'm bored.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Yeah, and as I've said over and over, those voters are where the problem lies. Not in make-pretend coups that aren't happening. It's who they are going to pick for their next front man. Im worried sick about a charismatic one that doesn't "seem so bad".

But he wouldn't be compelling to Trumps base. Many of the things like like about him are the blatant racism, and "Triggering the libs".

I think Trumpism depends on a lot of that, so that a more usual politician couldn't make it work.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Trump asks an agent for his pistol so he can shoot a reporter he doesn't like.
The agent give Trump the gun.
Trump points the gun at a reporter and pulls the trigger.
The reporter doesn't get shot because the agent loaded it with blanks before giving it to Trump.
Trump is not guilty of any crime because he didn't have a live bullet....

Wow.

 

[Cain]

In other words, Trump might be stupid, but he's genius.

 

[Mader Levap]

That's my point: you guys tilting at his impotent windmill gives this farce the legitimacy he craves.

There is no chance in sight of this having the power to even be dignified with the term "attempted coup". Nothing will come of it but a pitiful orange clown begging for you to give him credibility.

I see you ignored pretty much everything I said. I will repeat myself: this farce weakens USA's pseudo-democracy. Fell free to laugh and watch this ongoing disaster with popcorn in hand. Extremely foolish, but you do you.

You willing to put your avatar where your mouth is, or are you all bluster too?

Bet on what? I never claimed his coup attempt will be successful. In fact, I don't think anyone claimed that he has any realistic chance to pull it off. Your avatar bet demands comes off as dumb.

 

[Thermal]

But he wouldn't be compelling to Trumps base. Many of the things like like about him are the blatant racism, and "Triggering the libs".

I think Trumpism depends on a lot of that, so that a more usual politician couldn't make it work.

That's what concerns me. Trump, as a spoiled silver spoon draft dodging deadbeat should have been downright revolting to his base. And to the higher ups in the party, his stupidity coupled with arrogance should have had them pushing him away, too. Im concerned that the next one will have some grit, wit, and charm, but similar principles. We could be in real trouble.

Back on the OP, I guess we should be more troubled that Congress is not charging the Pres with treason as we speak. Its not Trump's coup we should worry about; it's that Congress is ignoring it. Unless maybe...just maybe...they know damn right well it's nothing.

 

[Thermal]

I see you ignored pretty much everything I said. I will repeat myself: this farce weakens USA's pseudo-democracy. Fell free to laugh and watch this ongoing disaster with popcorn in hand. Extremely foolish, but you do you.

You still have it dead backwards. Our Democracy can easily withstand this impotent clown show. If you are paying attention, we are handling it quite nicely. Even the SCOTUS, with three conservative justices freshly appointed by Trump, is refusing to side with him. Does this mean nothing to you? Nothing at all about our system is weakened by watching him try and dismally fail. That would actually be discouraging to an actual wannabe coup. We don't even give it the time of day.

Do tell: what is the disaster? A blowhard tries and abjectly fails. His own party and SCOTUS watch him fail and do nothing. Congress does not even dignify this with a charge of treason. Seems to me we are showing our resiliency.

Eta: avatar bet. You're right, no one actually thinks it will be successful. You guys know damn right well it's a steaming pile and nothing at all will come of it. So back to swooning for...whatever reasons you swoon

 

[ponderingturtle]

That's what concerns me. Trump, as a spoiled silver spoon draft dodging deadbeat should have been downright revolting to his base. And to the higher ups in the party, his stupidity coupled with arrogance should have had them pushing him away, too. Im concerned that the next one will have some grit, wit, and charm, but similar principles. We could be in real trouble.

But they would lose the appeal. I mean a big part of his appeal is the appearance of success while achieving nothing. If someone had real health care plans they would lose the appeal. I think the incompetence is fundamental to the charm he exudes to his base. I don't think he will be an easy act to follow, because the megalomania at the core of his appeal is limiting in what it can coexist with.