Trump whistleblower brewing scandal

[varwoche]

I think this merits a thread. The administration is taking what are apparently unprecedented steps to withhold the whistleblower report from congress. It's been reported it involves Trump and the Ukraine.

Meanwhile, Guiliani spews gibberish out both sides of his mouth about his efforts, on Trump's behalf, to get Ukraine to investigate Biden.

Rudy Giuliani denies asking Ukraine to investigate Biden -- before admitting it

 

[Cain]

I honestly don't see the big deal. The president only -- allegedly -- offered favorable treatment to a foreign government in exchange for taking out a political opponent.

Trump correctly notes the whistleblower is highly partisan despite not knowing the person's identity (and if he does know their identity, then a "crime" has been committed, but it's actually REAL whistleblowing and should be pardoned).

 

[Stacyhs]

What is being reported now is that the call MAY have been Trump and the Ukraine president regarding Ukraine investigating Biden for Trump. Giuliani admits he asked Ukraine to investigate Biden. Giuliani would not have done that without Trump's direction to do so.

Didn't the GOP have a fit when they accused the DNC of hiring a foreign national (Steele) to investigate a presidential candidate (Trump)?

 

[Segnosaur]

What is being reported now is that the call MAY have been Trump and the Ukraine president regarding Ukraine investigating Biden for Trump. Giuliani admits he asked Ukraine to investigate Biden. Giuliani would not have done that without Trump's direction to do so.

Not only asking Ukraine to investigate, but possibly tying it to military aid. (i.e. if you don't investigate Biden we won't help protect you against Russia).

Which means Trump may be using taxpayer money as a way to leverage another country to dig up dirt on a political rival.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-poli...histleblower-ukraine-trump-biden-military-aid

 

[BobTheCoward]

Not only asking Ukraine to investigate, but possibly tying it to military aid. (i.e. if you don't investigate Biden we won't help protect you against Russia).

Which means Trump may be using taxpayer money as a way to leverage another country to dig up dirt on a political rival.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-poli...histleblower-ukraine-trump-biden-military-aid

Or incentive to a country to investigate alleged corruption. Justice cannot stop simply because it just so happens to involve someone you know.

It could be difficult to prove it was the former.

 

[Random]

So far, the best bit was Rudy Giuliani's epic meltdown on CNN. I am reminded of the idea of a "Golden Shovel Lawyer", an expensive attorney who shows up in court in a fancy suit and tie and proceeds to bury their client.

 

[Childlike Empress]

I've stacked up on popcorn already. "The Resistance" should check if they have enough handkerchiefs for all those liberal tears they will be crying. Likely it will be kept on low profile for the best part of another year, though, especially if creepy and sleepy uncle Joe really is chosen to run against Orange Man (who is bad).

 

[Segnosaur]

Or incentive to a country to investigate alleged corruption. Justice cannot stop simply because it just so happens to involve someone you know.

It could be difficult to prove it was the former.

Except of course that no formal request for an investigation has been made by the U.S. (suggesting that this is more of a smear tactic than a legitimate investigation into corruption).

https://www.thedailybeast.com/ukrai...-sonbut-only-if-theres-an-official-us-request

In addition you also have proportionality... Even if there is a legitimate reason to investigate Biden, making major foreign policy changes that can affect the geopolitical situation just because "Gosh, person X didn't pay their taxes" seems excessive (considering the Trump administration continues to support Saudi Arabia after they had a reporter actually killed.)

And finally... lets say there was a reason to investigate Biden. Lets say the crimes were serious enough to suspend aid if they were uncooperative.... The Trump administration may have still broken the law by not passing on a legitimate report to congress in a timely manner, as they were required to do.

(This is of course assumes the whistleblower complaint was about Trump/The Ukraine/Biden, and not some unrelated reason.)

 

[chrispy]

Except of course that no formal request for an investigation has been made by the U.S. (suggesting that this is more of a smear tactic than a legitimate investigation into corruption).

https://www.thedailybeast.com/ukrai...-sonbut-only-if-theres-an-official-us-request

In addition you also have proportionality... Even if there is a legitimate reason to investigate Biden, making major foreign policy changes that can affect the geopolitical situation just because "Gosh, person X didn't pay their taxes" seems excessive (considering the Trump administration continues to support Saudi Arabia after they had a reporter actually killed.)

And finally... lets say there was a reason to investigate Biden. Lets say the crimes were serious enough to suspend aid if they were uncooperative.... The Trump administration may have still broken the law by not passing on a legitimate report to congress in a timely manner, as they were required to do.

(This is of course assumes the whistleblower complaint was about Trump/The Ukraine/Biden, and not some unrelated reason.)

I agree with most everything you say here, but let us not forget that last night Rudy said, on live TV no less, that even if the President did it, it's OK (paraphrase).

 

[BobTheCoward]

Except of course that no formal request for an investigation has been made by the U.S. (suggesting that this is more of a smear tactic than a legitimate investigation into corruption).

https://www.thedailybeast.com/ukrai...-sonbut-only-if-theres-an-official-us-request

In addition you also have proportionality... Even if there is a legitimate reason to investigate Biden, making major foreign policy changes that can affect the geopolitical situation just because "Gosh, person X didn't pay their taxes" seems excessive (considering the Trump administration continues to support Saudi Arabia after they had a reporter actually killed.)

And finally... lets say there was a reason to investigate Biden. Lets say the crimes were serious enough to suspend aid if they were uncooperative.... The Trump administration may have still broken the law by not passing on a legitimate report to congress in a timely manner, as they were required to do.

(This is of course assumes the whistleblower complaint was about Trump/The Ukraine/Biden, and not some unrelated reason.)

I didn't comment on the whistleblower because the post I was responding to did not mention the whistleblower.

 

[dudalb]

And IMHO Trump will get away with it.
If he is relected, I see no peaceful way of restoring democracy and rule of law.

 

[alfaniner]

I found it amazing that CNN considered it so valuable to show that they didn't have a commercial break for almost 30 minutes. It was almost a refreshing break from all the drug and insurance ads.

Huh. Y'know, I was so entranced that I didn't even notice that!! Good spot!

That's part of what made it so exhausting to watch. Cuomo never had a chance to reset and the audience to catch its breath. Or to get Guiliani to shut up for more than a second or two.

 

[chrispy]

That's part of what made it so exhausting to watch. Cuomo never had a chance to reset and the audience to catch its breath. Or to get Guiliani to shut up for more than a second or two.

I don't have CNN where I live, so I watched on youtube afterward and just assumed they had cut out the commercials!!

 

[varwoche]

Words from Trump's mouth lend credence to the reporting that (1) it was Ukraine and (2) it involved pressuring them to investigate Biden.

Asked if he mentioned former vice president and Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden in the conversation, Trump said, "Somebody ought to look into Joe Biden's statement because it's disgraceful."

 

[Stacyhs]

And IMHO Trump will get away with it.If he is relected, I see no peaceful way of restoring democracy and rule of law.

That's been the pattern so far. I also have little doubt that the GOP will continue to back Trump no matter how outrageous or illegal Trump's actions are. I suspect they will fight releasing this info to the Intelligence Committee through every means they can muster just like they have with Trump's taxes. If there is nothing illegal in that phone call, as Trump has claimed, then why are they refusing to release it? I have the same question about his tax returns. He wouldn't fight it this hard if he isn't hiding something.

 

[JoeMorgue]

It's the thing that would end Trump's Presidency in any sane world. It will be forgotten by the end of next week when Trump does the next thing that will end his Presidency in any sane world.

The Republicans will make excuses, the Democrats will make angry screeching noises at the wall.

 

[RecoveringYuppy]

And IMHO Trump will get away with it.
If he is relected, I see no peaceful way of restoring democracy and rule of law.

Yeah, I agree our some tweaks might be in order, but democracy and rule of law don't need "restoring", they aren't gone.

 

[acbytesla]

Words from Trump's mouth lend credence to the reporting that (1) it was Ukraine and (2) it involved pressuring them to investigate Biden.

​

Add Rudy Giuliani's best impression of Colonel Nathan R.Jessep in his interview where he says he first denied he asked the Ukraine to investigate Biden and moments later said he did and was proud of it. Add the fact that aid to the Ukraine was mysteriously held up and then was released to them.

Trump is the most corrupt President in US history and should be lined up against a wall and shot for Treason. After his impeachment and a fair trial. Unfortunately the Republicans in Congress are just as corrupt. So goodbye democracy. 226 years was a good run I guess.

 

[Checkmite]

and should be lined up against a wall and shot

No, stop that.

 

[a_unique_person]

Trump did have a conversation, but it was a "beautiful conversation". So you can all back off now.