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Split Thread Trump Document indictment (as opposed to other indictments)

Checkmite said:
... I see no evidence that he sold or even (intentionally) conveyed any of this information to foreign countries, or ever planned to. ....
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A'hem, regarding no evidence:

Just after Trump took office in 2017 Kushner (and Trump in a separate visit) went to Saudi Arabia. Shortly thereafter Prince Kashogi-murderer purged the royal conglomerate of perceived threats to his power. Speculation is Kushner (with information Trump gave him) passed on CIA collected data about those threats.

Just after Trump lost the 2020 election, Prince Kashogi-murderer gave Kushner 2 billion dollars laundered through a supposed investment fund.

Your claim there is no evidence, maybe you should change that to no current actionable evidence we have clear proof of.
 
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Myriad said:
... Not as "souvenirs" or because of orneriness but because he thought he could use them politically in some way, perhaps to embarrass someone he dislikes who's mentioned in them....
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Not mutually exclusive motives.

I think we can consider the overall purpose of him keeping any of these documents would have been his idea he could use them as an extension of the power he felt as POTUS: Bragging, revenge, and trading for gain of some kind., not necessarily in that order.
 
JayUtah said:
I love how the higher-quality photos from the indictment shows what a run-down dump Mar-a-Lago is.
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The previous owner, Marjorie Post, made it into her mansion away from Washington. She was very particular about doing style well, and had the fortune to afford the best. Apparently Trump had the good stuff ripped out when he bought and renovated the place. This is the same place that Trump valued at over $750 million when it was really worth less than $75 million.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mar-a-Lago
 
Checkmite said:
Well, note the parenthetical I used. I don't think it's likely that Trump intended to give away or sell information to foreign governments, ...
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Even people who are not Trump supporters are reluctant to think the worst of him. Hard to believe even an evil person would have such a motive but Trump? Why not? We've seen with direct evidence he is that bad. No need to pull speculative punches.


Checkmite said:
I think the fact that the documents were initially being stored in bathrooms and hallways and storage closets and wherever else they could fit, meant that early on Trump didn't particularly care what exactly he had or what was in them all that much. Once the word "subpoena" started floating around however, he became intensely interested in them, just because now they were a liability and he needed to know exactly which regions of his ass needed covering.
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I can't be the only person who was shocked to see he had that many boxes.
 
Hercules56 said:
I have a big question: seems a good part of the indictment is based on statements made by Trump's lawyers to the investigators. Isn't all of that protected by attorney client privilege? Can't Trump's attorneys now have all that evidence stricken from The trial? If a suspect knew that his attorney could testify against him why would he ever admit to anything to his attorneys anymore?
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Attorney client privilege doesn't protect a client as well as many people think. There is something called the crime fraud exception. An attorney cannot help a client hiding a crime. In fact, they are duty bound as an officer of the court to report it. Ninja'd big time!
 
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Reports say that about 100 documents are classified. He has thousands more that are not classified. I think I read that on CNN.
 
Gulliver Foyle said:
Indeed, Trump is a small little man trying to look big but too stupid to understand how to actually go about doing it.
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Really? Just because a lot of us see him as that whiny baby in diapers doesn't mean he hasn't successfully accomplished making himself look spectacularly bigly. Some in his cult even see him as akin to Jesus.


Gulliver Foyle said:
Though I think he did also intend to also prpfit from his theft. At the very core of his soul Trump is a criminal and a grifter. There's no doubt in my mind that he thought he could pull it off. Remember, with small little men like Trump they also want to convince others they're the biggest, the best, the strongest and the smartest in the room and the first person they convince is themselves. And with Trump he doesn't have the brains to have that nagging little doubt in his mind, what Pratchett called Second Thoughts, which pulls one back from the brink if you listen.
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I agree with the bolded part but I think he vacillates between his ego hitting rock bottom and rising above the clouds on a regular basis.
 
William Parcher said:
Reports say that about 100 documents are classified. He has thousands more that are not classified. I think I read that on CNN.
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Yeah, I think it was altogether a couple hundred classified documents; but in any case, those stacks and stacks of boxes are not full of classified docs, rather that the ones he had were scattered throughout them haphazardly.

The exception is probably the boxes that were photographed being taken aboard Trump's private jet. It seems to be alleged that those specifically were classified docs that Trump had selected and was taking away from Mar-a-Lago in order to hide them from his own attorney's search.
 
GlennB said:
Images of a huge number of boxes stashed at Mar-a-lago

The Guardian

No suggestion as to what's in them, mind :)
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Next to the toilet, no less.

Skeptic Ginger said:
Not mutually exclusive motives.

I think we can consider the overall purpose of him keeping any of these documents would have been his idea he could use them as an extension of the power he felt as POTUS: Bragging, revenge, and trading for gain of some kind., not necessarily in that order.
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Plus, it looks like he's a hoarder to some extent.
 
trump often referred to Mar-a-Lago as an "armed fort."

trump even 'truthed': "What I did was RIGHT, Secured documents in a secured place!"

[IMGW=300]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1457&pictureid=13521[/IMGW]

MAGA!!!
 
So apparently the defense is going to be that he considers them "personal records" and therefore is allowed to keep them, based on precedent from Clinton.

Of course, there are problems with that claim.
1) It's hard to argue that classified documents are his personal papers
2) The grand jury was presented with that defense and basically laughed it out of the room
3) the National Archives have created an FAQ explaining why it's all nonsense and that there are clear criteria for what constitutes personal papers
4) I thought they were planted by the fbi? No wait, he declassified them? Oh, it's that he is allowed to have them?
 
JayUtah said:
38 counts, devastating.

Having formerly had access myself to classified documents and information, I really think this will not go well. If convicted, it's highly unlikely he will avoid a custodial sentence.
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Those Secret Service agents are not going to like sitting in a Cell with Trump, Mitch McConnell should have Impeached him.
 
Apparently trump's base is reaching the boiling point. MSN reports on a story that appeared on Raw Story:
  • “We need to start killing these traitorous f---stains,” wrote one person on the the pro-Trump messaging board, The Donald.
  • “It's not gonna stop until bodies start stacking up. We are not civilly represented anymore and they'll come for us next. Some of us, they already have," wrote another.
  • Another person shared an article about Attorney General Merrick Garland's family, prompting one user to reply, “His children are fair game as far as I’m concerned.”
MSN news link
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Congressman Andy Biggs agrees, as he tweeted. And on his official Congressional Twitter account no less!

[IMGW=400]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1457&pictureid=13523[/IMGW]

MAGA!!!
 
Of all the adventures outlined in the indictment, I think I've decided that my favorite is how Trump and his Top Men spent days going through the boxes culling and moving the classified documents in advance of the planned audit by the attorney, leaving only a couple dozen behind for the attorney to find, and then when the attorney finds them, Trump actually has the nerve to ask him if he found anything too problematic. "What's it look like, is it good or bad?"
 
This is just the beginning. I'm betting Trump is going to be indicted on many more charges. There is still January 6th. There is election interference. I bet Fani Willis will indict Trump in Georgia by the end of June.
 
The type of documents sound like something an uninformed person like Trump would think some foreign power would want to buy.

It's basically movie -type espionage stuff, not what Russia, China or the Saudis are really after.
 
The sentence in this case will probably be much worse than in the Jan 6th case - even though it should be the other way around.

Reason being that in the run-up to the insurrection and on that day, Trump actually was President (unlike during most crimes in the Documents case); and Courts are extremely reluctant to punish a President for what they did in Office.
Republican Presidents, that is.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
The type of documents sound like something an uninformed person like Trump would think some foreign power would want to buy.

It's basically movie -type espionage stuff, not what Russia, China or the Saudis are really after.
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I don't think we know that. We have no idea the depth and extent of the documents Trump had. There were classified documents that even the jury will not see.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=dGvqxrnS5vU&feature=share9
 
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