True Believers ???

[Just thinking]

I started wondering the other day about people that believe in God. Do they believe because they were brought up to believe or because they actually have personally reasoned themselves into believing? Well, regardless of that, my real concern is with those who believe in God because (if what they believe is real) of the alternative to not believing -- eternal damnation. A belief out of fear. To me, this type of belief is worthless -- just as a confession to a murder is worthless by someone who is being tortured into confessing. Any God that would accept that excuse for believing in Him seems awfully petty in His need for worship; as this type of worship is meaningless (to me -- these people are not true believers). Yet it seems to be common knowledge (and still taught) among many Christian religions (and maybe others) that those not believing will be severely punnished in the after life. So I wonder just how many out there believe as a result of fear for not believing, thus skewing any polls that try to determine the fraction of a given poplation that otherwise would believe in God.

Oh yes, and people that believe because they were taught to believe and simply continue to do so because, well, that's how they were raised, are really not much different when it comes down to it (IMHO).

 

[Bentspoon]

My point of view

I have always held the view that people are mostly talk - like I was. I believed because I was told it was the right thing to do. Once I really engaged in some introspection and asked myself, obejctively, why? I could not come up with an answer and I had to admit that I did not truly believe.

But I digress. I don't want to generalize but I know of no one directly that would admit to being an atheist. My family and friends are all believers and I draw my experience from them. If I generalize, it would be about this small population.

I have come to believe that people just say they believe but do not conduct themselves in a manner consistent with that. Take the 10 commandments:

Now if you believe, you must accept that these are the true commandments of God. Then you would not even begin to think of deviating. There are only 10 and, after all, they shouldn't be that hard to adhere to.

But take the vast majority of "believers" and whittle out those that have commited adultery, then those that work on Sunday, and then those that don't honor father and mother, then those that say God Damn It on a regular basis. Those with graven images. I think you get my point - all these believers and yet a tiny few could actually say that they adhere to all of these simple 10 commanments.

I say to those that didn't make it - you do not believe - you just say it.

The other thing is prayer

Now prayer, as I know it, is a communication medium for those that have a personal relationship to God. It is a very profound idea. The idea that with a little ritual you can actually connect with the supreme being is profound. I would be in awe if I believed it. But many of those that believe and pray use it in the most frivolous ways; to win the game, to get laid, to win money. They are not in awe and I doubt that they really believe in prayer for that reason.

I know that there are exceptions but then I think the vast majority of believers are that because they have been told that they are supposed to be and that it is bad if you don't.

Then there are those like my family. Decent everyday believing people. I was raised Catholic. But my family was military and moved around a lot making it hard to remain in a church and eventually they just stopped going.

They do not worship, they do not go to church, they do not have holy images in the house, they don't light candles, I have never seen prayer utilized, they don't sing hymns, the 10 commandments are generally but not concsiously adhered to, they don't prosletyze or even say grace.

How different and wierd are they - I think not - I think this describes a large majority of believers in this country. I am convinced that their belief is because "it is the right thing to do".

Regarding my family and friends - I don't buy into their claim for belief at all.

If you do nothing to acknowledge a supreme being, how can you say you believe.

Bentspoon

(edited for dyslexia)

 

[Kopji]

Almost everyone who believes in a heaven also believes they are going there. At least a couple of surveys have shown this.

Personally, I really doubt most religious people think about eternal punishment much outside of the occasional hellfire sermon. To think about hell on a consistent basis would put you in the company of the Westboro lunatics (Humm, perhaps that's offensive to lunatics).

Most modern Christians tend to believe that hell is a place people choose to go: A willful existence of separation from the presence of God.

 

[Just thinking]

Almost everyone who believes in a heaven also believes they are going there. At least a couple of surveys have shown this.

Personally, I really doubt most religious people think about eternal punishment much outside of the occasional hellfire sermon. To think about hell on a consistent basis would put you in the company of the Westboro lunatics (Humm, perhaps that's offensive to lunatics).

I have little doubt in what you have said -- but my original intent was to perhaps return comment more on why they chose to believe in the first place, not in the act of believing itself. Once convinced that believing in God is the correct course of action, one probably does little to regularly question one's self over and over as to why they continue. I guess it's the original reason that I'm after more than anything else -- and I would not be at all surprised if a large population started either because they were raised into believing or that they were too afraid of the consequenses of not believing.

 

[Just thinking]

Most modern Christians tend to believe that hell is a place people choose to go: A willful existence of separation from the presence of God.

Sounds like they do not have a firm understanding of atheism.

 

[triadboy]

I have little doubt in what you have said -- but my original intent was to perhaps return comment more on why they chose to believe in the first place, not in the act of believing itself. Once convinced that believing in God is the correct course of action, one probably does little to regularly question one's self over and over as to why they continue. I guess it's the original reason that I'm after more than anything else -- and I would not be at all surprised if a large population started either because they were raised into believing or that they were too afraid of the consequenses of not believing.

The "God Concept" is universal - it's the intermediaries who have all the fun. Because GOD is unknowable and does not covort with humans we need a link-person to help us - Jesus, Mohammed, Mithra, Moses, all the Hindu gods, etc.

These link-people are distributed over regions. If you're born in that region you believe what you are told until about your teenage years. After that you may question 'the truth'.

So you see, the god people get a great head start in your head.

Before you know it - you're married to a good hindu girl - slaying a goat - going to dances - having good hindu fun.

Religion is a way to deal with the 'afterlife'. One way is as good as another.

I choose to deal with it as rationally as I can.