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Travis Walton Experience

onceamarine

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Apr 2, 2003
Messages
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Hey all,

Long time visitor, but I think this is only my second or third post. Generally I'm a skeptic on most matters, although I will say that one UFO story that has always kept my interest is the Travis Walton "Fire in the Sky" incident. After researching on the internet many times, I have yet to find any real evidence from researchers to show that this was indeed a hoax. Can anyone point me in the right direction as to where I could find this information, or does anyone perhaps have any insight to this story they could share?

Thanks,

Once A Marine
 
The thing is, that it isn't up to anyone else to prove Travis Walton was hoaxing, it is up to him to prove that what he calimed to have experienced did indeed happen.

Granted, I haven't read too deeply about his case, but it seems that the only evidence that it happened is his word that it did. A good story, even if one sticks with it, doesn't constitute evidence. I can claim that I am Elvis, you can't prove me wrong.....
 
Can't provide you any sources right now, but I remember reading somewhere that his family was obsessed with the idea of being abducted by aliens.

It might actually have been in Demon Haunted World.

Anyway, it wasn;t the first time someone in his family (or friends) had claimed to have beeen abducted...or somthing equaly red-flag-raising.
 
c0rbin said:
Can't provide you any sources right now, but I remember reading somewhere that his family was obsessed with the idea of being abducted by aliens.

It might actually have been in Demon Haunted World.
Click to expand...
He is only mentionned briefly (ch. 5):
When the mother of the celebrity abductee Travis Walton was informed that a UFO had zapped her son with a bolt of lightning and then carried him off into space, she replied incuriously, 'Well, that's the way these things happen.' Is it?
Click to expand...
Liam
 
Nyarlathotep,

Actually, I imagine it would be very easy, scientifically, to prove that you are not Elvis...I understand what you were trying to say, however, I just thought it was a bad example...either way, I get your point.

So, the question now becomes, what can Travis Walton due to prove his story? In my opinion, there is nothing more he can do. He, along with the other five mebers involved, have all taken lie detector tests (Which I know, doesn't really prove a thing), all have stuck to the same story, and he was indeed "missing" for five days with no physical evidence (as to his whereabouts during that time) ever having been found.

There have been many instances of hoaxes being discovered, even though the only evidence anyone had was the individuals story (due to inconsistencies, witness testimony, etc.) What I am looking for is someone that can say "Hey, Travis Walton is full of S#!t, here is why..." and I have yet to find that. Like I said, I due consider myself a skeptic, but the Walton experience is one that has intrigued me because of the lack of evidence (that I have been able to find, anyway) to contradict his story.

c0rbin,

I've read "Demon Haunted World" as well as "Billions and Billions" (these are the only two Sagan books I have read) and do not recall anything in either about the Travis Walton issue. Although I will readily admit I could be wrong on this. I just really do not recall...but with the interest I have in this case, I imagine it would have stuck with me had I read it.

And I have not heard that other members of his family also reported being abducted (or something equally red-flag-raising.) The only thing that comes close was a remark his mother made when she was first told about his abduction...something along the lines of "Well, that's how these things happen..." Which I admit is a weird response...but far from showing his story as un-true.

So again, does anyone out there have any more insight into this case to show (or lean to) this being a hoax?
 
onceamarine said:
Nyarlathotep,

Actually, I imagine it would be very easy, scientifically, to prove that you are not Elvis...I understand what you were trying to say, however, I just thought it was a bad example...either way, I get your point.

So, the question now becomes, what can Travis Walton due to prove his story? In my opinion, there is nothing more he can do. He, along with the other five mebers involved, have all taken lie detector tests (Which I know, doesn't really prove a thing), all have stuck to the same story, and he was indeed "missing" for five days with no physical evidence (as to his whereabouts during that time) ever having been found.

There have been many instances of hoaxes being discovered, even though the only evidence anyone had was the individuals story (due to inconsistencies, witness testimony, etc.) What I am looking for is someone that can say "Hey, Travis Walton is full of S#!t, here is why..." and I have yet to find that. Like I said, I due consider myself a skeptic, but the Walton experience is one that has intrigued me because of the lack of evidence (that I have been able to find, anyway) to contradict his story.
Click to expand...

I think at this point there is nothing Travis Walton can do to prove his story true. It is too late. If he had provided some pice of physical evidence at the time that pointed to him being in contact with aliens (though, given the details of his story, I have no idea how he might have obtained them, even if it was true) it could prove his story. As of right now, it is nothing more than a story.

I suppose the only way that anyone could totally rebuff his story is if some eyewitness saw him in those five days and came forward. Walton could just as easily call that witness a liar and it still would come down to story vs. story. This is why it is Waltons job to prove himself right, not anyone elses to prove him wrong.
 
If you see the movie, they had a financial motive for the hoax, as they were going to lose their federal grant to cut down the trees, and apparently they knew they just weren't going to make the deadline. So, an "incident" happens, and they get out of trouble. I do not know how true the movie script is, they usually are not, but at least the film offered a great deal more balance than comparable films, where in FITS offers an alternative explanation.
 
Nyarlathotep,

If someone accuses someone of lying, is it not the accusers burden to show evidence of why the person is being un-truthful?

What I am saying is that, in my opinion, Travis Walton has done everything a person possibly can, without having physical evidence, to show he is telling the truth. So for someone to say he is lying, they would have to provide the evidence for why they believe that way.

What I am looking for, again, is someone that says he full of it, and a reason as to why they say that. I figured with all the skeptics and researchers on here that surely someone would be able to do this.

Personally, do I believe his story, not really, only because logically I look at which is more probable...Travis Walton made this whole thing up, or he was really abducted by extraterestrials. But, other than that, that is all I have to go on.
 
I beleive Phillip Klass covered the Travis Walton case in his UFO abductions book. There were a lot of odd elements to Travis's story(such as his telling his mom not to worry if he was abducted by aliens before he was abducted). It seems the logging company he worked for was using his 'abduction' as an excuse to get out of a contract they had underbid on.

There's loads of other problems too, such as the claim that he passed a lie detector test. Even if there was a value to such a thing, there's the little detail that he actually failed a couple of tests before passing one from a friendly tester.

I'll see if I can find my copy of Klass' book, but it takes upa whole chapter, so I won't be transcribing it.
 
onceamarine said:
Nyarlathotep,

If someone accuses someone of lying, is it not the accusers burden to show evidence of why the person is being un-truthful?

What I am saying is that, in my opinion, Travis Walton has done everything a person possibly can, without having physical evidence, to show he is telling the truth. So for someone to say he is lying, they would have to provide the evidence for why they believe that way.

What I am looking for, again, is someone that says he full of it, and a reason as to why they say that. I figured with all the skeptics and researchers on here that surely someone would be able to do this.

Personally, do I believe his story, not really, only because logically I look at which is more probable...Travis Walton made this whole thing up, or he was really abducted by extraterestrials. But, other than that, that is all I have to go on.
Click to expand...

If someone specifically makes an accusation of lying (or hoaxing) then yes, he does have the responsibility to prove his accusation. In Waltons case if someone claimed he was commiting a hoax they would have to prove he was. However this still would not relieve Mr. Walton from the burden of proving that his own story is true. There are many reasons why his story could be untrue, it being a lie is just one of them. He could easily believe his story to be true, but as the saying goes 'believeing doesn't make it so'

I don't think you will find very many people (if anyone) willing to specifically claim "Travis walton is a liar" for this very reason. Just as it is probably to late for Walton to prove his story, I think it is too late to find anything concrete to prove any allegations of lying. Saying that Mr. Walton being wrong (for whatever reason) is more likely than his being abducted by aliens seems to me to be the most logical stance to take. In that we are in complete agreement.
 
Kookbreaker,

That's the kind of stuff I'm looking for, anything you have would be apprieciated.

Thanks,

Once A Marine
 
onceamarine said:
Kookbreaker,

That's the kind of stuff I'm looking for, anything you have would be apprieciated.

Thanks,

Once A Marine
Click to expand...

Here's a
bit of info.

Plus RObert SCheaffer reports the account of the guys who packaged the deal. Link
 
Phillip Klass

Mr. Klass is one of the world's premier UFO skeptic/debunkers. He's written numerous books on the subject. An archive of web articles by Klass can be found right over here.
 
Travis Walton Nonsense

The best critique I have read on the Travis Walton non-incident, is "Abdutions, A Dangerous Game" by Phillip J. Klass. Klass, if you didn't know, is a debunker of all things extraterrestrial. Read it, you'll find it quite enlightening.
 
Guess i was beaten to the idea of reading Klass. Anyway to the subject of the lie detector, Walton claims that he passed all the tests, which isn't true. He failed the first test given to him, and other tests, which he passed, were rather dubious.
 
(The examiner — John J McCarthy, of the Arizona Polygraph Laboratory)

After completing the exam, McCarthy determined that Travis was lying. Clark quotes from McCarthy’s official report: "Based on his reaction on all charts, it is the opinion of this examiner that Walton, in concert with others, is attempting to perpetrate a UFO hoax, and that he has not been on any spacecraft". (Clark, 640) Later, McCarthy would assert that "sometimes Travis would hold his breath, in an effort to 'beat the machine."[2

I understand what you are looking for, I myself thought that particular case was abit odd, but after some net-search I am convinced he`s just another american ufonut.

Funny enough there aren`t too many people over here in norway being abducted. None actually. Must be to cold for them. However if their crafts can survive space, Norway should be a peace of piss? Heck what do I know.
 
Brian Dunning at Skeptoid had a great podcast about this. The transcript is on skeptoid.com . I would post a link but i'm still a newbie here and its not allowed.
 
Skeptic Philip J. Klass did a lot of research on the case, which appears in his book Ufos: The Public Deceived or many of his articles such as: http://www.csicop.org/klassfiles/SUN-50.html

Philip J. Klass noted:
The best known was the Betty/Barney Hill case which was featured in a two-hour movie shown on NBC-TV on Oct. 20, 1975--roughly two weeks before the Walton incident. Travis claims that he did not see the NBC-TV movie but his detailed description of the faces of his bald ETs closely resembles the ETs shown in the TV movie and differs significantly from the "new-look" ET descriptions which have typically been reported since the late 1980s, following publication of Whitley Streiber's book "Communion" and Budd Hopkins' book "Intruders."
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Simply put, Walton took on the contract job for the forestry, which he couldn't complete on time. Two weeks before he went missing a national TV show on an alien abduction was shown. Then Walton went missing for 5 days and couldn't finish the brush clearing. His mother was told he went missing that night and took the news "calmly." The eye witnesses told conflicting stories. Then Walton wrote a book and toured the talk show circuit.

Many aspects don't add up or have been proven questionable. Such as he proudly said he passed a polygraph test, but fails to mention he failed the first one. Or why did he visit a hypnotherapist instead of a medical doctor? If taken to outerspace for 5 days wouldn't you want to go to a doctor to check your health? Why did the "eye witnesses" give conflicting stories?

These questions taken in conjunction with the forestry contract he was going to default on, I think, demonstrate the most likely case: Walton made it up.
 
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Adavidson said:
(The examiner — John J McCarthy, of the Arizona Polygraph Laboratory)

After completing the exam, McCarthy determined that Travis was lying. Clark quotes from McCarthy’s official report: "Based on his reaction on all charts, it is the opinion of this examiner that Walton, in concert with others, is attempting to perpetrate a UFO hoax, and that he has not been on any spacecraft". (Clark, 640) Later, McCarthy would assert that "sometimes Travis would hold his breath, in an effort to 'beat the machine."[2

I understand what you are looking for, I myself thought that particular case was abit odd, but after some net-search I am convinced he`s just another american ufonut.

Funny enough there aren`t too many people over here in norway being abducted. None actually. Must be to cold for them. However if their crafts can survive space, Norway should be a peace of piss? Heck what do I know.
Click to expand...

Yep none in UK either.But then I don't blame them for that.;)
 
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