Cont: Transwomen are not women - part XI

[Upchurch]

And?

And keep reading:

Consider the source.

They definitely have an agenda and might not be a reliable source.

 

[Matthew Best]

They've developed hierarchies that seem to work pretty well.

Work well for who?

 

[Hercules56]

That's not really the issue. The issue is whether or not the evil transwomen are calling them bigots, isn't it?

First post to label transmen and transwomen as being "evil".

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I think we can all agree that it is NOT an act of bigotry for a lesbian or straight man to reject the idea of dating a transgender woman. Especially if a family is on their agenda.

But even if its not, when it comes to relationships and possible life partners, we are allowed to be picky about who we wanna date, screw and marry.

Bigotry? Hardly.

From your OP:

Is it bigoted for a lesbian or straight man to reject the sexual advances of transwomen, and reject the idea of dating transwomen, due to the belief that they are in fact not really women?

And you've answered your own question here on page 4:

I think we can all agree that it is NOT an act of bigotry for a lesbian or straight man to reject the idea of dating a transgender woman.

[/thread]

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Feels like we're treading into appeal to nature^WP territory here.

All roads lead to Peterson's pondering of the lobster.

 

[d4m10n]

Especially if whose naturally occurring family is on which agenda to do what?

I assume it's a reference to the "straight man" from post #123, who may well be dating in hopes of eventual marriage and fatherhood.

ETA: It may also be a reference to the simplicity of family planning between monogamous (female) lesbians, who do not require birth control to prevent pregnancy.

 

[Upchurch]

https://www.advocate.com/commentary/2019/12/14/refusing-date-trans-people-transphobic

"A 2018 study showed that only 1.8 percent of straight women and 3.3 percent of straight men would date a transgender person. A small minority of cisgender lesbians (29 percent) and gays (11.5 percent) would be willing."

That's lacking the accusation part you were so worried about in the OP.

eta: Sorry, it was the first page, but not the OP.

 

[Hercules56]

From your OP:And you've answered your own question here on page 4:


[/thread]

what are your thoughts on this?

A 2018 study showed that only 1.8 percent of straight women and 3.3 percent of straight men would date a transgender person. A small minority of cisgender lesbians (29 percent) and gays (11.5 percent) would be willing.


Are these vast majorities of straight and gay men and women, bigots?

 

[d4m10n]

That was a particularly memorable one.

ETA: Memorably lampooned, as well.
https://twitter.com/James_P_Snell/status/1058500563695034369

 

[Matthew Best]

And keep reading:

​

They definitely have an agenda and might not be a reliable source.

They are a reliable source to answer your question: "is it happening".

 

[Upchurch]

They are a reliable source to answer your question: "is it happening".

...how do you know?

By all accounts, it was a small, self-selected sample with unknown or leading questions. If we're depending on the idea that "well, at least this extremist anti-trans group wouldn't lie or exaggerate about the results of this part of a very sus survey", I'm not sure how reliable it is.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Imagine finding out the girl you were into is really Jewish even if she doesn't look Jewish! The rage there is understandable and clearly not an indicator of antisemitism.

 

[Hercules56]

Imagine finding out the girl you were into is really Jewish even if she doesn't look Jewish! The rage there is understandable and clearly not an indicator of antisemitism.

So you think it IS bigotry to refuse to date a transgender woman?

Fascinating. My view? People have the right to make all sorts of choices regarding who they date and it's really none of our business to judge.

 

[ponderingturtle]

So you think it IS bigotry to refuse to date a transgender woman?

Fascinating. My view? People have the right to make all sorts of choices regarding who they date and it's really none of our business to judge.

I said no such thing, unless you think it is bigotry to only date Christian women.

 

[Matthew Best]

...how do you know?

By all accounts, it was a small, self-selected sample with unknown or leading questions. If we're depending on the idea that "well, at least this extremist anti-trans group wouldn't lie or exaggerate about the results of this part of a very sus survey", I'm not sure how reliable it is.

Your question wasn't "is it happening a lot?" or "is it happening to a significant number of people?". It was "is it happening?" If someone then reports that it is happening, then that's evidence that it is happening. The fact that you have unilaterally and without evidence decided to dismiss them as "extreme" doesn't make a jot of difference.

 

[Hercules56]

I said no such thing, unless you think it is bigotry to only date Christian women.

Nothing wrong with wanting to create a Christian family that maintains Christian values.

Same for Jews or Muslims or atheists.

Just as there is nothing wrong with not wanting to date transgender persons. It is surely not an act of bigotry.

 

[d4m10n]

Consider the source.

If you're looking for a more pro-trans-rights source directly on topic, I'd recommend this think piece from Natalie Reed.

The refusal of lesbians to consider us viable sexual partners, or their seeing intimacy with us as somehow a threat to their lesbian identification...is to ultimately...assert that beneath whatever lip-service you’ve paid to the legitimacy of our identity you simply don’t really regard us as women. At least not fully so.

https://freethoughtblogs.com/nataliereed/2012/04/04/caught-up-in-cotton/

 

[Olmstead]

Obviously men are just very ugly women. And vice versa, I suppose. Nothing a few hours under the scalpel can't fix. It's hard to live disfigured.

There's no such thing as lesbian or gay. Lesbians just don't want to date very ugly women, and gay men don't want to date very ugly men.

 

[Upchurch]

Your question wasn't "is it happening a lot?" or "is it happening to a significant number of people?". It was "is it happening?" If someone then reports that it is happening, then that's evidence that it is happening.

Yes, I understand how numbers work. I was asking about the reliability of the source. There are people who report that they were abducted by aliens. That isn't necessarily evidence that it is happening.

The fact that you have unilaterally and without evidence decided to dismiss them as "extreme" doesn't make a jot of difference.

Oh, you might be the first person in the thread to take the position that they are not extremist. Do you find them to be mainstream? ...or something in between?

 

[Matthew Best]

Yes, I understand how numbers work. I was asking about the reliability of the source. There are people who report that they were abducted by aliens. That isn't necessarily evidence that it is happening.

It isn't proof that it is happening, but it is evidence.

Oh, you might be the first person in the thread to take the position that they are not extremist. Do you find them to be mainstream? ...or something in between?

I think everyone's an extremist in this discussion.