Split Thread Trans ideology causes school shootings

theprestige said:
As stupid as I find Samson's premise, the Daily Wire is reporting that the Police Department of Norwalk, Iowa has announced their arrest of "a trans-identifying 19-year-old", after she threatened to shoot up an elementary school.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/tran...pressing-desire-to-shoot-up-elementary-school
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Man, I have a lot of problems with this one. First off, she didn't threaten a soul. She confided to her therapist about having thoughts. If anything, that shows less intent and more sharing something in the context of getting help. No guns reported, no planning, just a dark thought that crosses her mind, as many people have when they are in therapy and need for their mental health worker to understand their psyche.

Second, what the hell is wrong with the therapist for reporting that? Does she report people who say they think of slapping their spouses with assault, too?

Third, the State. What in the ever loving hell are they breaking down on someone who admitted they had a thought? Not a threat, not a plan, not even an actual desire. Just a dark thought. Literal ******* thought crime.

What happens if you see an attractive young lady and think "nice butt" and it turns out she's underage? What do you get charged with for having a passing thought?
 
Thermal said:
Man, I have a lot of problems with this one. First off, she didn't threaten a soul. She confided to her therapist about having thoughts. If anything, that shows less intent and more sharing something in the context of getting help. No guns reported, no planning, just a dark thought that crosses her mind, as many people have when they are in therapy and need for their mental health worker to understand their psyche.

Second, what the hell is wrong with the therapist for reporting that? Does she report people who say they think of slapping their spouses with assault, too?

Third, the State. What in the ever loving hell are they breaking down on someone who admitted they had a thought? Not a threat, not a plan, not even an actual desire. Just a dark thought. Literal ******* thought crime.

What happens if you see an attractive young lady and think "nice butt" and it turns out she's underage? What do you get charged with for having a passing thought?
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It's America - the land of free speech.
 
Steve said:
It's America - the land of free speech.
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It's a thought. Does a person confessing to suicidal thoughts get charged with attempted homicide? I mean, I've thought of skinning a few members here, some into the advanced planning stages. But you can't criminally charge someone with a thought that flits across their minds on occasion.

Eta: I mean absolutely guaranteed this person will never reach out for help again, or trust anyone who says they are there to help.
 
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The state of Iowa is basically saying "you know how them thar trannys are. They'll do it, by gum. Zero tolerance for the queers". The article even makes a point of referencing the other trans shooter. It's freaking revolting.
 
Thermal said:
Man, I have a lot of problems with this one. First off, she didn't threaten a soul. She confided to her therapist about having thoughts. If anything, that shows less intent and more sharing something in the context of getting help. No guns reported, no planning, just a dark thought that crosses her mind, as many people have when they are in therapy and need for their mental health worker to understand their psyche.

Second, what the hell is wrong with the therapist for reporting that? Does she report people who say they think of slapping their spouses with assault, too?
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The actual charge is "terrorist threats".

And most jurisdictions have laws requiring medical professionals to break the seal of doctor-patient confidentiality if their patient talks about harming themselves or other people.

Probably the therapist knows better than anyone whether this was a flight of fancy, or consistent with a decline of mental health likely to end in violence if not addressed right away.
 
Thermal said:
Man, I have a lot of problems with this one. First off, she didn't threaten a soul. She confided to her therapist about having thoughts.
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If everyone who ever thought of killing someone got locked up the streets would be empty.
 
theprestige said:
The actual charge is "terrorist threats".

And most jurisdictions have laws requiring medical professionals to break the seal of doctor-patient confidentiality if their patient talks about harming themselves or other people.

Probably the therapist knows better than anyone whether this was a flight of fancy, or consistent with a decline of mental health likely to end in violence if not addressed right away.
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It has to be a credible threat to break confidentiality, not a thought. They report only thoughts.
 
Thermal said:
It's a thought. Does a person confessing to suicidal thoughts get charged with attempted homicide? I mean, I've thought of skinning a few members here, some into the advanced planning stages. But you can't criminally charge someone with a thought that flits across their minds on occasion.

Eta: I mean absolutely guaranteed this person will never reach out for help again, or trust anyone who says they are there to help.
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Seems he put his thought into words in the presence of a witness.

And I completely agree with your eta. Had to deal with the consequences of something similar 20 years ago.
 
The Atheist said:
If everyone who ever thought of killing someone got locked up the streets would be empty.
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At times I make Thanos look like a bleeding heart (USA) liberal. I've even tried to calculate how many of you I need to leave alive so I'm looked after as I want to be (it's about 3 million by the way if I can get the skillsets properly distributed).
 
HansMustermann said:
Technically, not just credible, but imminent too.
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Yeah, I mean, if the patient reported that every morning they looked at their AR-15 and bucket o' bullets and gazed out at the elementary school across the street, feeling an overwhelming urge to go shoot 'em up and they didn't know how much longer they could control themselves, then yeah of course I can see confidentiality broken in the interests of public safety. But this story reads like a patient having dark and disturbing thoughts and they are willing asking for help from a mental health professional about, then gets ground through the justice system for asking for help.

I'm inclined to think the patient will never ask for help again, and will be on their own if the dark impulses continue. If they actually go on to shoot up a school, should the therapist be charged? I rather think so. At least in a fair universe, unlike the one I'm living in presently.
 
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On the other hand, we don't know exactly how the rest of the discussion with the therapist went, or how it fits with what else they had previously learned about the patient. Professionals are actually taught to first probe into it, and actually assess if it's a serious and imminent threat. It's not something they need to learn off this forum.

We also don't know if they were willing to ask for help with that. The dude was there for his regular treatment, according to the article. We don't know if it was asking help for this, or he just had other issues for a while.

It also sounds like a weird fantasy to have in any case. I mean, even most people who shoot up the school or office, have a beef with the people there. Like, being bullied there or whatnot. In this case we have a 19 year old thinking of shooting up a primary school. Like, huh? What beef does he have with the kids there?

It also doesn't help that it sounds like he'd put more than a passing thought into it. I mean, specifically 11 AM in the cafeteria? That's a bit more specific than just occasionally wishing they were dead. For a start it means already having found out when their lunch break is.


TL;DR version: I don't know if the therapist was in the wrong or not. There aren't any particular reasons to just assume that they just suddenly forgot their training.
 
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Except that it's the actual reporting, using quotes. It's entirely possible that the reporting is incompetent, but that puts us in a weird position of not accepting reporting. Then we kind of flounder a bit.
 
Yes, but that's not a full transcription of the whole conversation. As I was saying, psychiatrists are actually told and trained to probe deeper and assess if it's an actual threat. We don't know if that part was missing, just because it's not quoted.
 
Right, and that is always the case with any reporting. But in this one, they forgot to report literally anything of consequence, except the parts which are perfectly legal (passing thoughts)?

Eta: what is reported is a knee jerk overreaction to a law, in the context of trans people being more of a threat than a straight person. Dunno about you, but that leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
 
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