Track team disqualified for believing in God

[aggle-rithm]

Just like clockwork, a heavy-handed judge's decision at a track meet is bringing accusations that our government is waging war against Christianity:

http://news.msn.com/us/nod-to-god-gets-track-team-disqualified

The rules specifically state that raising one's hand over their heads in celebration is considered taunting and is grounds for disqualification.

Sure, it's a persnickety interpretation of the rules. But does it have anything to do with the establishment clause of the first amendment?

There was a debate about this on our local news last night. Both the Republican and the Democrat agreed that the judge was being too strict in calling this "excessive celebration". It annoyed me, however, that they argued about separation of church and state when this clearly wasn't the issue here.

 

[zeggman]

Sure, it's a persnickety interpretation of the rules.

I don't think it's a persnickety interpretation of the rules at all. If raising both arms in a victory pose or pumping your fist would get you disqualified, so should pointing at the sky (the universal gesture for "we're number one").

You're right that this has nothing to do with the separation of church and state, it's simply that religion doesn't get a special pass which is denied to everyone else.

 

[Bikewer]

To me, it's not so much a statement about religious freedom (that pointing up gesture is ubiquitous...)
But rather a comment on the boneheaded rules. "Excessive celebration"? Jeez, the kid just won a big race...

Certainly would never make it as a contestant on a TV game show.....

 

[Rolfe]

As an aside, I still wonder what the hell Andy Murray has started doing at the end of the matches he wins. He won't discuss it.

Rolfe.

 

[Belz...]

The rules specifically state that raising one's hand over their heads in celebration is considered taunting and is grounds for disqualification.

What a stupid rule.

 

[Polaris]

To me, it's not so much a statement about religious freedom (that pointing up gesture is ubiquitous...)
But rather a comment on the boneheaded rules. "Excessive celebration"? Jeez, the kid just won a big race...

Certainly would never make it as a contestant on a TV game show.....

What a stupid rule.

My thoughts exactly. The judges at the Olympics heaped disapproval on Usain Bolt when he "excessively celebrated" winning his gold at the 2008 games. I thought they were being douches then, and he wasn't even disqualified.

 

[Megalodon]

For the next rule, the winner will have to apologize to the also winners for having physically discriminated them, and share the prize.

 

[Spindrift]

What a stupid rule.

It's not a stupid rule. It might have been stupidly applied but the rule itself is not bad.

I'm actually a certified track official and while given the written evidence I don't think I would have disqualified the runner. However, until I see what actually transpired, I would have to withhold judgment. If should be noted that the ruling was upheld by the meet referee, a second senior official at the meet.

This is high school only we're talking about. Not college, not Olympics. High school sports can be very contentious, yes even track. The rule is meant to not inflame situations and there are similar rules in all high school sports. We're dealing with teenagers and parents who can get very emotional and overreact at the drop of a hat. Coaches know or should know the rule. It's not new and has been around for a long time.

Bottom line is it had nothing whatsoever to do with religion. The title of this OP and newspaper articles I've seen are just flat out wrong about that.

 

[Aepervius]

"which prohibit excessive celebrations such as raising the hands."

now that's very very dumb.

 

[Spindrift]

"which prohibit excessive celebrations such as raising the hands."

now that's very very dumb.

The rule doesn't say that. It is actually kind of broad and leaves interpretation to the official.

ART. 1 . . . Unsporting conduct is behavior that is unethical or dishonorable. It
includes, but is not limited to: disrespectfully addressing an official, any flagrant
behavior, intentional contact, taunting, criticizing or using profanity directed
toward someone. This shall apply to all coaches, contestants and other
team/school personnel.
PENALTY: Disqualification from that event and further competition in the meet.
Disqualification of a coach or other school personnel shall be from further
involvement in the meet.

My feeling is that there was something else besides a simple pointing into the air action. But until I see a video, I just don't know.

On the other hand, track does have some problem with what are known as "gotcha" officials. Officials who seem to get off on DQing people. Most officials are 'preventative' officials, correct things before the athlete or coach gets themselves in trouble.

For instance, video taping and then showing that video to an athlete who is actively participating is an immediate DQ. I can't tell you how many times I've seen well meaning parents try to do that. If I see it about to happen I will stop it by informing the parent that what they're about to do will get their kid DQed. "Gotcha" officials will let the parent show the video and then DQ the kid. Thankfully there aren't that many of those officials, but unfortunately enough to give track officials a bad rep.

 

[madurobob]

This is high school only we're talking about. Not college, not Olympics. High school sports can be very contentious, yes even track. The rule is meant to not inflame situations and there are similar rules in all high school sports. We're dealing with teenagers and parents who can get very emotional and overreact at the drop of a hat. Coaches know or should know the rule. It's not new and has been around for a long time.

Ugh. I have a son and a niece on *middle school* track teams. My son runs the mile and is usually middle of the pack - not much excitement there. My Niece runs the 100, 4X100 relay and hurdles and is usually first or second in the 100 - big excitement. The kids racing are always very subdued - run the race, go back to the team area (I guess the coaches really drill it into them that they can get DQ'd quickly). The parents in the stands tho, are another story. Taunting the runners as they go by, saying anything they can to try to break concentration, rattle, annoy, etc... Its ridiculous.

I can only imagine how much worse it is in high school. I wonder how many of those DQ-happy officials are really responding to the parental behavior they see?

 

[MarkCorrigan]

Is this the same kind of rule that leads to pro teams in the US being frowned upon for celebrating scoring?

I recall a thread on here not so long ago about football (soccer) goal celebrations and American Football celebrations that included a couple of American posters being aghast at goal celebrations in football (soccer) describing them as bad sportsmanship.

The whole idea that emphatically celebrating a victory with your team or fans was bad sportsmanship seemed utterly ridiculous to me.

 

[Bluegill]

For instance, video taping and then showing that video to an athlete who is actively participating is an immediate DQ.

For the track-illiterate, such as me: Why is this forbidden?

 

[Damien Evans]

Is this the same kind of rule that leads to pro teams in the US being frowned upon for celebrating scoring?

I recall a thread on here not so long ago about football (soccer) goal celebrations and American Football celebrations that included a couple of American posters being aghast at goal celebrations in football (soccer) describing them as bad sportsmanship.

The whole idea that emphatically celebrating a victory with your team or fans was bad sportsmanship seemed utterly ridiculous to me.

God no wonder they don't get Cricket. It's cause they're all offended by bowlers celebrations when they get a wicket!

Personally I'm a big fan of wicket celebrations, I certainly give it plenty (though never anything rude to the batsman) when I take one!

 

[Dr. Keith]

The title of this OP and newspaper articles I've seen are just flat out wrong about that.

Well, especially the title of the article . . .

Nod to God gets track team disqualified

I mean a nod would have been fine, right?

 

[Spindrift]

Is this the same kind of rule that leads to pro teams in the US being frowned upon for celebrating scoring?

I recall a thread on here not so long ago about football (soccer) goal celebrations and American Football celebrations that included a couple of American posters being aghast at goal celebrations in football (soccer) describing them as bad sportsmanship.

The whole idea that emphatically celebrating a victory with your team or fans was bad sportsmanship seemed utterly ridiculous to me.

It not the victory but every time they score even if the score is 50-7. Act like you've scored before. And it's not even the celebrating so much as it's when it turns into taunting.

 

[CORed]

Is this the same kind of rule that leads to pro teams in the US being frowned upon for celebrating scoring?

I recall a thread on here not so long ago about football (soccer) goal celebrations and American Football celebrations that included a couple of American posters being aghast at goal celebrations in football (soccer) describing them as bad sportsmanship.

The whole idea that emphatically celebrating a victory with your team or fans was bad sportsmanship seemed utterly ridiculous to me.

The NFL (National Football League, professional American Football) does indeed have a rule against excessive celebration. In practice, the player who scores a touchdown can spike the ball and do a little dance, but if he carries on too long or their is a group celebration, it will usually draw a penalty (5 or 15 yards, I forget which, assessed on the following kickoff). Some sportscasters, when this rule was first enacted, quipped that "NFL" stands for "No Fun League";.

 

[Spindrift]

For the track-illiterate, such as me: Why is this forbidden?

Considered an unfair advantage. You can't show them pictures of what they are doing so they can correct form or technique, especially in field events like the pole vault or discus where the athlete gets more than one attempt unlike a running race.

 

[Ron Swanson]

School Sports Religion

 

[Damien Evans]

It not the victory but every time they score even if the score is 50-7. Act like you've scored before. And it's not even the celebrating so much as it's when it turns into taunting.

I fail to see what the problem is.

You should see some of the fans!

Here are the Barmy Army, an English Cricket supporters group:

The best part of that is that every word is true.







And they're pretty mild (and funny, even to Australian fans) really.