Tower Collapse Questions for Critical Thinkers

LOL! Original structure was 80 tables - not 50 - stacked on top of each other and each table had very strong legs as you point out. They could carry 2000 lb.

But this table tower (legs/glass tops) is very easy to topple as the tables are not really connected with one another. Just stacked on top of each other. Lateral strength of table tower is zero.

So result would be 80 broken glass tops and all table legs, strong, intact. No table leg will be broken. Like a house of cards! The cards are not broken. Just displaced.

You really don't know anything about structural damage analysis, I am sorry to conclude.

ok again im no engineer but

i think the glass table analogy works when youre talking about the trade center if you think of the glass as the supports for the legs and vise versa (the legs are bolted to the glass no cross members) when youre thinking about the connections from the tower's cores to the outer tubes

now heiwa
what happens when you drop the ball in this scenario?
 
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The division by 3 is not at all arbitrary; it is, in fact, a pretty good representation of the actual Tower.
I Made no claim that it was abitary, and I understand that it is a reasonable aporimxation of the disturbation of mass in the tower. I have never made a claim to the contrary here, and would aprecacte it if you would could resist your complusion to assume such nonsense on me, and stick to adressing the arguments I do make.

Anyway, what we learn from this is that you cannot follow even a simple potential energy calculation, even when all the work is shown for you and dumbed down to a high school sophomore level.
Rather, I know better than to think a simple potential energy calculation has any relevance to a complex system of interconnected mass.
A Newton is a unit of force. Structural integrity is not equivalent to a force.
Structural integrity is how much force a given mass or system of mass can take in a given situation.
As I said, the structural integrity is not a well defined quantity.

Not that I ever claimed it was. I simply pointed that the lack of being a well defined quality is no excuse to ignore a physical reality, as struclrial integrity is a physical reality.
The videos with which you are not familiar describe a particular type of demolition, in which a single floor's worth of supports is suddenly destroyed through cables and hydraulics. This leaves an upper section to fall upon the lower portion, which is frequently much larger than the upper part. The entire structure is destroyed, despite no weakening at all being applied to the lower portion.
Do you agree that Newton's third law of motion in these collapses? If so, would you please be so kind as to describe what effect it has on such a collapse?
 
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Do you agree that Newton's third law of motion in these collapses? If so, would you please be so kind as to describe what effect it has on such a collapse?

Newton's third law-For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.

In the case of the towers collapse the action of the buildings top section falling on the lower section causes damage to both sections.Since tha damaged lower section cannot now hold itself up against gravity it falls and a higher mass impacts the next floor causing damage to both sections but due to the difference in mass more damage is caused to the bottom than the top.

You might think of it as a newtons cradle,the first impact is 1 ball hitting 1 ball,the second impact is 2 balls hitting 1 ball,the third impact is 3 balls hitting 1 ball etc and with each impact the effect on the speed of the larger mass is reduced.
 
For those who are wondering, there's no such measurement called "structural integrity" in any code book I've ever used. I've never heard it used that way before either. There are a number of chapters in various different material codes on structural integrity, however. For example:

In ACI318, the reinforced concrete spec referenced by all major building codes in the USA, requires that a minimum number of bars must be continuous across the entire slab or beam system and either have a high strength lap splice or be butt-welded. This is to prevent the entire system from failing from one column failure (thanks for that, Timothy McVeigh). There's never any units attached to it.

Moreover, the only really real way to measure a buildings strength is as a function of its capacity. In other words, one could state that under an extreme load event, the building is at 0.99 of its maximum capacity. This is a unit less measurement.

kylebisme is yet another truther that just makes things up as he goes along to justify his belief.

Edit: I should also point out that saying the "building is at 0.99" capacity is kind of a misnomer as well. There's no way to measure that, you have to go on the basic assumption that the building will fail when the first major structural element fails.
 
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I Made no claim that it was abitary, and I understand that it is a reasonable aporimxation of the disturbation of mass in the tower. I have never made a claim to the contrary here, and would aprecacte it if you would could resist your complusion to assume such nonsense on me, and stick to adressing the arguments I do make.

Oh, my god.

The factor of three comes from the integral. It is not an approximation of the distribution of mass, it is a consequence thereof. An "integral" is a mathematical concept you don't follow at all, just like "inertia."

Rather, I know better than to think a simple potential energy calculation has any relevance to a complex system of interconnected mass.

Absolutely 100% dead wrong. If you knew what an integral was, you would know that potential energy is an aggregate calculation, and can therefore be applied to any arbitrarily large or complex assortment of objects.

Seriously, this is award-winning nonsense you are writing.

Structural integrity is how much force a given mass or system of mass can take in a given situation.

No, it is not. Because, again, that answer varies wildly depending on how that force is delivered. It is a mere figure of speech. It also does not have inertia as a component, as you claimed previously.

Not that I ever claimed it was. I simply pointed that the lack of being a well defined quality is no excuse to ignore a physical reality, as struclrial integrity is a physical reality.

Total babble.

Do you agree that Newton's third law of motion in these collapses? If so, would you please be so kind as to describe what effect it has on such a collapse?

Newton's Third Law applies universally and at all times. In particular, it applies during the verinage demolition technique -- those crafty Frenchmen have not developed a magical way to suddenly turn it off, because if they had, instead of making a decent living demolishing buildings they could rapidly become masters of Earth and space. So, what this proves is that even though Newton's Third Law is in full effect, it is nonetheless possible for a small portion of structure to trigger a cascading failure and totally destroy an entire structure, including crushing a much larger lower portion.

There's a reason for this. Newton's Third Law says that forces are equal and opposite, at any point in time. It does not imply that damage is equal and opposite, particularly when totalled over a complex evolution. That's one of the little details that you and many other Truther ignorati simply cannot understand, having no practical scientific knowledge.

Like I said, I'm done with you. You go on my Ignore list, effective immediately. Unless you get the proper education, starting practically at zero, I don't see how I can discuss these topics with you without feeling like a bully, and that's really not what I'm trying to do here. I would try to educate you but I can't do that without your participation -- no one can. So, good luck to you, hope you get it someday. See here if you have any further questions.
 
Nope, you are not
I most certainly am referring to the behavior represented in Ohm's Law when I speak of "the path of least resistance" in regard to electricity, and a quick Google search finds nearly two thousand hits using the phrase while mentioning Ohm's Law. Here one example in a worksheet covering Ohm's Law:

A common saying about electricity is that ït always takes the path of least resistance." Explain how this proverb relates to the following circuit, where electric current from the battery encounters two alternate paths, one being less resistive than the other:
Granted, in the answer to that question, they go on to note the semantic I suggested your argument might be based in:

As an instructor, I was very surprised to hear many beginning students claim that all current would go through the lesser resistor, and none through the greater resistor! The proverb about "takes the path of least resistance" really should be understood as "proportionately taking paths of lesser resistance."
Like the instructor, I'm surprised the phrase is missunderstood, I certainly never meant to imply what he reports his students take from it. I also respect his suggestion on rephrasing, but I'm at a loss as to what ground you think you might have to deny the use of the phrase as I did. Based on your lack of being able to formulate more than a hollow dismissal, I'm left to concluded you don't have any such ground to stand on.
 
LOL! Original structure was 80 tables - not 50 - stacked on top of each other and each table had very strong legs as you point out. They could carry 2000 lb.
So?

But this table tower (legs/glass tops) is very easy to topple as the tables are not really connected with one another. Just stacked on top of each other. Lateral strength of table tower is zero.
No, wrong. Lateral strength would be limited by the friction of feet of one table on the surface of the one below. With hundreds of pounds of weight, that could be pretty high.

So result would be 80 broken glass tops and all table legs, strong, intact. No table leg will be broken. Like a house of cards! The cards are not broken. Just displaced.
So you have a pile of rubble with some components intact. My analogy is not perfect, that's true. But your claims are entirely absurd.

You really don't know anything about structural damage analysis, I am sorry to conclude.
I'm not the one claiming that it's impossible for a building ever to collapse.
 
For those who are wondering, there's no such measurement called "structural integrity" in any code book I've ever used. I've never heard it used that way before either. There are a number of chapters in various different material codes on structural integrity, however. For example:

In ACI318, the reinforced concrete spec referenced by all major building codes in the USA, requires that a minimum number of bars must be continuous across the entire slab or beam system and either have a high strength lap splice or be butt-welded. This is to prevent the entire system from failing from one column failure (thanks for that, Timothy McVeigh). There's never any units attached to it.

Moreover, the only really real way to measure a buildings strength is as a function of its capacity. In other words, one could state that under an extreme load event, the building is at 0.99 of its maximum capacity. This is a unit less measurement.

kylebisme is yet another truther that just makes things up as he goes along to justify his belief.

Edit: I should also point out that saying the "building is at 0.99" capacity is kind of a misnomer as well. There's no way to measure that, you have to go on the basic assumption that the building will fail when the first major structural element fails.

Actually it was the loss on moral integrity that caused the problem. The building were touted as the tallest in the world and that led to the sin of pride and we all know that pride goeth before the fall.
 
Actually it was the loss on moral integrity that caused the problem. The building were touted as the tallest in the world and that led to the sin of pride and we all know that pride goeth before the fall.
That's pretty funny, actually. :alc:
 
Oh, my god.

The factor of three comes from the integral. It is not an approximation of the distribution of mass, it is a consequence thereof. An "integral" is a mathematical concept you don't follow at all, just like "inertia."

...
That was funny and sad to see someone proving their ignorance in math and physics without a clue.
 

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