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Torturing Animals for the Tourists

It will be fun if this sort of practice is still happening when the Olympics are on. I suspect all the "parks" and "zoos" will simply shut up shop for those few weeks...don't want the tourists to get the wrong idea!

Also, I do recall reading somewhere recently (on this forum?) that the Chinese (and most East Asians?) do not apply any sense of anthropomorphism to the animal kingdom. It appears they view non-humans as subservient to and exploitable by humans.
 
The feeding of "live" stock at the zoo is one thing. Anyone that has a boa or python for a pet knows the feeding ritual. But making it a tourist spectacle is quite a different matter.

Sigh.
 
It's almost like in some secret CIA-Bases. I really don't understand why Parents take their Children to Zoo's at all.
 
Zep, I concur on both your points, and you can combine them into one.

The Chinese will be surprised at the fact that we deem this to be cruel because, well..... animals are just animals. But upon understanding that perception, in the interests of acceptance, they'll likely shut down such spectacles, and maybe even adjust their thinking (although that'll take longer).

I haven't heard any comments from the zoo/wildlife park officials, but I'm sure their attitude is going to be something along the lines of, "this is nature - these animals hunt and are hunted in their world..."

The Hong Kong government has only in recent years put out a concerted campaign to educate the public and even heavily enforce animal cruelty laws. Not unlike "The West", it's not uncommon to find injured/abandoned house pets here, all the time. Once the novelty wears off, or if they want to move into housing that doesn't allow pets, they just discard them out the back door and let them fend for themselves. Worse is that there seems to be (I say "seems" because I have no studies and maybe it's just that the media plays the stories up) an inordinate amount of physical abuse, bordering on torture.

>jsfisher I had a friend who had a Moray, and he fed it live goldfish. I stayed with him for about a week (the friend, not the Moray). The first time I saw the feeding, I watched, albeit with a little bit of horror. It's how the creature lives, after all. But I didn't watch him feed again and again, and I noticed that my friend didn't, either. It's not a spectator sport.
 
Foolmewunz said:
>jsfisher I had a friend who had a Moray, and he fed it live goldfish. I stayed with him for about a week (the friend, not the Moray). The first time I saw the feeding, I watched, albeit with a little bit of horror. It's how the creature lives, after all. But I didn't watch him feed again and again, and I noticed that my friend didn't, either. It's not a spectator sport.
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Exactly. And to get any sort of morbid pleasure from it is, well, disturbing.
 
There's no reason why the Cow even needs to be fed to the Tigers apart from amusing the ignorant visitors. The tigers were actually overweight and well fed. Feeding the cow to the tigers was unnecessary then for two reasons. One is because they are already well fed and don't need the food and two is because the cow is kept alive just to be cruelly killed for the amusement of the visitors.

China is a country we frequently hear from these cases of cruelty to animals. I wonder what it is about China. Their culture seems to purvey the idea that animals are "just animals" and thoughtless creatures without feelings who can be abused without concern.
 
Foolmewunz said:
Zep, I concur on both your points, and you can combine them into one.

The Chinese will be surprised at the fact that we deem this to be cruel because, well..... animals are just animals. But upon understanding that perception, in the interests of acceptance, they'll likely shut down such spectacles, and maybe even adjust their thinking (although that'll take longer).

I haven't heard any comments from the zoo/wildlife park officials, but I'm sure their attitude is going to be something along the lines of, "this is nature - these animals hunt and are hunted in their world..."

The Hong Kong government has only in recent years put out a concerted campaign to educate the public and even heavily enforce animal cruelty laws. Not unlike "The West", it's not uncommon to find injured/abandoned house pets here, all the time. Once the novelty wears off, or if they want to move into housing that doesn't allow pets, they just discard them out the back door and let them fend for themselves. Worse is that there seems to be (I say "seems" because I have no studies and maybe it's just that the media plays the stories up) an inordinate amount of physical abuse, bordering on torture.

>jsfisher I had a friend who had a Moray, and he fed it live goldfish. I stayed with him for about a week (the friend, not the Moray). The first time I saw the feeding, I watched, albeit with a little bit of horror. It's how the creature lives, after all. But I didn't watch him feed again and again, and I noticed that my friend didn't, either. It's not a spectator sport.
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Actually, it IS. It was on ESPN 2 last night at 2:30 a.m. EST.
 
Dustin Kesselberg said:
There's no reason why the Cow even needs to be fed to the Tigers apart from amusing the ignorant visitors. The tigers were actually overweight and well fed. Feeding the cow to the tigers was unnecessary then for two reasons. One is because they are already well fed and don't need the food and two is because the cow is kept alive just to be cruelly killed for the amusement of the visitors.

China is a country we frequently hear from these cases of cruelty to animals. I wonder what it is about China. Their culture seems to purvey the idea that animals are "just animals" and thoughtless creatures without feelings who can be abused without concern.
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Funny how they seem to often treat people that way too, especially if they dissent.
 
I can understand the sense of revulsion at animals suffering at the hand of humans for entertainment, but this isn't anything I haven't seen on the discovery channel. Personally, I find the "zoocosis" the most cruel.
 
I haven't looked this up, but I saw a similar looking 'zoo' on a documentary recently which was endeavouring to raise and release tigers. The live animal thing was primarily an effort (for right or wrong) to retain some hunting behaviour in the tigers. It wasn't just for a spectacle, although I'm certain they cashed in on it.

Athon
 
It's easy to look at a foreign country and think those people are sick and twisted. Our own country is S&T when it comes to animal abuse and even elderly abuse.


 
IIRC, Elvis Presley's manager's main source of income, before he discovered "The King", was to amuse people at sideshows with an act called "Colonel <bastard's> Dancing Chickens". It involved putting a chicken on an electric hotplate so that it was forced to hop frantically from one foot to the other or burn. Just add music... :mad:
 
From a zoo keepers perspective - worked in zoos and with exotic animals, and have an AA degree in exotic animal management - the reason that we did not feed live prey (even with snakes) is because prey can and often cause injury to the hunter. The average lifespan of a predator in a zoo setting is nearly tripled that of the wild, in most cases this is due to injury.
(this might be dated and I am going by memory)


However in most modern zoos keepers spend considerable amount of time trying to find ways of entertaining kept animals, most of which involves activities around the hunting instinct, to keep the zoocosis at bay.


All and all I would put this at the extremely low end, if at all, on my list of animal cruelty. Stupid human behavior, YES! As for a social commentary - well I have a feeling that National Geographic and Animal Planet in the US are as popular as they are to some extent because they show this kind of footage. The fact that China puts it out there in your face, just says more about the current state of their society and state of PC (whether this is a negative or positive, I leave to you) thinking than animal cruelty.
 
Magyar said:
From a zoo keepers perspective - worked in zoos and with exotic animals, and have an AA degree in exotic animal management - the reason that we did not feed live prey (even with snakes) is because prey can and often cause injury to the hunter. The average lifespan of a predator in a zoo setting is nearly tripled that of the wild, in most cases this is due to injury.
(this might be dated and I am going by memory)


However in most modern zoos keepers spend considerable amount of time trying to find ways of entertaining kept animals, most of which involves activities around the hunting instinct, to keep the zoocosis at bay.


All and all I would put this at the extremely low end, if at all, on my list of animal cruelty. Stupid human behavior, YES! As for a social commentary - well I have a feeling that National Geographic and Animal Planet in the US are as popular as they are to some extent because they show this kind of footage. The fact that China puts it out there in your face, just says more about the current state of their society and state of PC (whether this is a negative or positive, I leave to you) thinking than animal cruelty.
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Nicely put, Magyar. Thanks for the perspective.

Athon
 
Magyar said:
From a zoo keepers perspective - worked in zoos and with exotic animals, and have an AA degree in exotic animal management - the reason that we did not feed live prey (even with snakes) is because prey can and often cause injury to the hunter. The average lifespan of a predator in a zoo setting is nearly tripled that of the wild, in most cases this is due to injury.
(this might be dated and I am going by memory)


However in most modern zoos keepers spend considerable amount of time trying to find ways of entertaining kept animals, most of which involves activities around the hunting instinct, to keep the zoocosis at bay.


All and all I would put this at the extremely low end, if at all, on my list of animal cruelty. Stupid human behavior, YES! As for a social commentary - well I have a feeling that National Geographic and Animal Planet in the US are as popular as they are to some extent because they show this kind of footage. The fact that China puts it out there in your face, just says more about the current state of their society and state of PC (whether this is a negative or positive, I leave to you) thinking than animal cruelty.
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The bit about predator life expectancy, I can see. In Africa even the lion, leopard, and crocodile can be injured by their prey (the crocodile has to worry more about hippos than prey, generally). Add that to the months of drought and scarcity of prey and their lives would definitely not be as long as the ones in captivity who get their one square meal a day. (But it's not just predators.... ditto the fate of the wild elephant or giraffe, or any animal in the wilds. Nature is fickle.)

As to National Geographic, or far worse, Animal Planet.... I don't watch many of their shows for that reason. Over the past few years, the promotions are not dissimilar to those for slasher movies. They are definitely (well, "definitely IMHO") playing to the darker side of the force. Top Ten Killers, Top Ten Most Poisonous, etc....

And the thread is more or less precisely to the theme of what is acceptable in China and what is not.

But I don't think you can dismiss the cruelty to the domestic cattle and even the fowl(s). I don't think they need to raise the animal in relative tranquility just to toss it to a bunch of overfed tigers for its last few moments of life. For what? To hone their hunting instincts? Obviously not. Tigers don't hunt in packs, unless it's a mother teaching her cubs. This is just for the spectators to have the pleasure of seeing a ferocious animal kill something.
 
I have my dislikes with (mainland) China, but as others have pointed out, I believe this is mostly a cultural thing.

Growing up in the south, I've known a lot of farmers and such that would view something like this differently than most of us would. Of course some of these people I'm talking about raised roosters for fighting, and thought that was perfectly fine. I've known some that would stomp a litter of puppies to death, not to be cruel, but because they didn't want their favorite bird dog to show the signs of nursing, and think nothing about doing it. And most of these folks were as kind and generous as anyone you could ever hope to meet. It's a totally different mind set than most of us city folk have.

No, I don't endorse such things, and I find them cruel and inhumane. But many people see things differently.

Right or wrong :)
 
Dustin Kesselberg said:
China is a country we frequently hear from these cases of cruelty to animals. I wonder what it is about China. Their culture seems to purvey the idea that animals are "just animals" and thoughtless creatures without feelings who can be abused without concern.
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Korea has it bad; there's very little respect for animals in general. I knew of one veterinarian in all of Seoul, and while they had a decent bit of business, the idea of keeping pets was a new one.

The thing is that you're dealing with a country that (talking about Korea here, not China) went from a view of poverty and starvation into, only recently, a "developed country", all within this century. America had centuries to develop it's current philosophical views in relative splendor of city life, but Korea was once a very poor nation, poor to the point of eating anything and everything people could get their hands on.

It's a cultural outlook that's as much dependant on the past as it is the present. And you can't really judge them too harshly, as quite frankly, the status of many pets here in America is abysmal.
 
In case some aren't aware of my personal slant... I'm over here because I'm a Sinophile. I did my fifty years in North America and decided I wanted to spend the end of my career, and even end of my life, in Asia.

I am having these same conversations that we're having on the board with my friends, here. I am very aware of the cultural differences. I can explain them quite readily; I just can't always agree with them.

I'm getting many similar reactions on all sides of the discussion, here, also.
 
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