Tories & Lib Dems propose forced labour

[Thunder]

Veolia Environmental Services would prefer it if people didn't keep suggesting that they should have to compete with free labour.

we have the same issue in the USA. welfare recipients being forced to do work that used to be done by paid employees...with benefits and a pension.

i do not want welfare and unemployment recipients doing work that should go to Unionized civil servants. but at the same time, if such jobs were lost due to necessary budget cuts, and the only way to get the work done is by requiring welfare or unemployment recipients to do it, then maybe this is the way it should have to be. but obviously not in a perfect world.

 

[lionking]

Unemployment benefits are not meant to pay for folks' vacation time. We are giving them money to help them pay the bills until they can find a job.

In the USA, you are required to PROVE that you are looking for work, in order to receive unemployment benefits. If you can't prove it, then you lose your benefits.

I have no problem with this. Its meant to motivate folks to look for a damn job.

However, if the Brits think welfare and unemployment benefits are meant to be a free ride for the rest of your life, that is very sad.

I really don't think its fare to all the millions of folks who do work hard and pay their taxes, to have their tax dollars pay folks to NOT look for work.

And if they really can't find work, due to no jobs, then let them pick up garbage or other simple but necessary tasks.

What do you know about the requirements placed on the UK unemployed? Even though I don't think the new program is a bad idea, I recognise that the unemployed are required to look for work and/or undertake re-training. Can you point to anyone here (or anywhere else for that matter) saying that "unemployment benefits are meant to be a free ride for the rest of your life" (sic)?

 

[JihadJane]

Are any skeptics here skeptical about the value of the Protestant work ethic?

 

[Thunder]

What do you know about the requirements placed on the UK unemployed? Even though I don't think the new program is a bad idea, I recognise that the unemployed are required to look for work and/or undertake re-training. Can you point to anyone here (or anywhere else for that matter) saying that "unemployment benefits are meant to be a free ride for the rest of your life" (sic)?

i clearly am not familiar with the British welfare and/or unemployment system.

so perhaps you can clear things up for me.

#1. can one be on unemployment insurance in Britain...for life?

#2. would such a person have to prove every month, till they reach the age of Social Security, that they have been searching for work on a daily basis?

 

[lionking]

i clearly am not familiar with the British welfare and/or unemployment system.

so perhaps you can clear things up for me.

#1. can one be on unemployment insurance in Britain...for life?

#2. would such a person have to prove every month, till they reach the age of Social Security, that they have been searching for work on a daily basis?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jobseeker's_Allowance

In certain cases, a claimant's Jobseeker's Allowance may be stopped. Those are:

• Not being available for or actively seeking work, or not signing the Jobseeker's Agreement: if a claimant doesn't declare on the Jobseeker's Agreement that they're available for and actively seeking work, and sign it, the benefit will be suspended until the date that the claimant completes and signs the agreement. Once the agreement has been signed, a Decision Maker will decide how much of the claim should be backdated, if any.
• Missing a Restart interview: the claim will be terminated unpaid, back benefit entitlement will be lost, and the claimant will need to make a new claim.
• Voluntarily leaving work, or refusing a notified vacancy: temporary reduction or stoppage of benefit payment, known as a sanction. The sanction may be up to 26 weeks, and the length will be decided by an adjudicator. A notified vacancy is a job vacancy which the claimant has found out about from Job Centre Plus, who keep records of all the jobs their clients request information about.
• Refusing to attend compulsory scheme, or failing to comply with Direction: sanction of two weeks for first 'offence', and four weeks for second and subsequent offence

And:

When a claimant attends a new Jobseeker Interview, they form a Jobseeker's Agreement with their advisor and sign it. The agreement lays out certain terms, such as:

• How many companies they will ring each week
• How many companies they will visit in person each week
• Whether they will use any magazines/newspapers to find vacancies
• That they will not do voluntary/part time work for more than 16 hours a week. Educational courses will sometimes come into this time limit as well. This limit is set as the government believes that doing more than 16 hours affects the Jobseeker's ability to find employment.

I would think that most countries would set conditions for recipients of unemployment payments.

 

[The Don]

i clearly am not familiar with the British welfare and/or unemployment system.

so perhaps you can clear things up for me.

#1. can one be on unemployment insurance in Britain...for life?

Yes and No. You can be on benefits of one kind or another for you entire life. Unless you're worked you cannot claim certain benefits but you won't completely lose your entitlement to benefits. Ironically, your National Insurance "stamp" is paid which means that having never worked, you qualify for a full state pension whereas someone who has a patchy work history but who has never claimed would not

In the UK, your medical is taken care of so that's one major outgoing taken care of. Housing benefit and/or social housing means that you'll have a roof over your head (although the demand for such housing far exceeds the supply so families are living in bed and breakfast accommodation).

The long-term unwaged have reportedly been encouraged to apply for sickness benefits (workers compensation) because it gets them off the unemployment figures.

Reportedly we now have generations of people who have never worked. It's difficult to sort the truth from the propaganda though. Here's an article about my old home town: http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/oct/23/britain-not-working-unemployment-middlesbrough

#2. would such a person have to prove every month, till they reach the age of Social Security, that they have been searching for work on a daily basis?

According to here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jobseeker's_Allowance

You have to report to "sign on" every two weeks and demonstrate that the're looking for work.

How rigorously this is applied may depend on locations. In areas where there are few or no jobs, I would imagine that the bar may be set lower

 

[Francesca R]

I tried to link to the World Bank database to provide the member with data on starvation in the US, but looking there myself there is no data. The Center for Disease Control reports total deaths in the US with a lag, the latest being 2007. Total deaths recorded with the cause being malnutrition was 2,644 (this is in Table 10 Page 33 of the PDF) with 1,987 of those being over age 75. The US population in 2007 was 301,290,000.

So yes, hyperbole.

Have to qualify this and other posts dismissing "starvation" as a hyperbolic device. Food insecurity is a much larger problem, including in the US, according to a 2009 report just released by their Department of Agriculture. (PDF)

[14.7 percent of] households were food insecure at least some time during the year, including 5.7 percent with very low food security. In households with very low food security, the food intake of one or more household members was reduced and their eating patterns were disrupted at times during the year because the household lacked money and other resources for food. Prevalence rates of food insecurity and very low food security were essentially unchanged from 14.6 percent and 5.7 percent, respectively, in 2008, and remained at the highest recorded levels since 1995, when the first national food security survey was conducted