Francesca R
Girl
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Tories & Lib Dems propose forced labour
- Thread starter Darat
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Francesca R
Girl
A problem with the "Work Activity Scheme" is that it seems to fly in the face of the minimum wage law and is contrary to the spirit of it (I am sure the rules would be set up to get around the letter of it). Jobs that are not worth min wage should, strictly, not be done. And the putative work placements presumably would not be done otherwise, which would tend to confirm that they would surely not be routes to viable employment.
Incidentally, for anyone to believe that such a back-door relaxation of minimum wages would increase employment, internal consistency would strongly suggest that they would also presumably have to think that the minimum wage itself reduced it--in which case supporters of the scheme might be better advised to argue for the end of that law.
Incidentally, for anyone to believe that such a back-door relaxation of minimum wages would increase employment, internal consistency would strongly suggest that they would also presumably have to think that the minimum wage itself reduced it--in which case supporters of the scheme might be better advised to argue for the end of that law.
Mojo
Mostly harmless
They are a form of punishment for the unemployed, much as the same sort of tasks are already used in "community service".
Francesca R
Girl
US federal/state unemployment benefit has IIRC always been of finite duration, typically 6 months but it was temporarily extended to 2 years for some cases.
For data on starvation in the US, check the World Bank's development indicators for undernourishment and malnutrition as a % of population. If you're serious, which you're not.
Alan
Illuminator
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- 3,714
I volunteer at two places that have work for the dole people. They give the job hunters very valuable experience to put on their resume to improve their chances of getting a job, but it also serves as a way to network and that can open up opportunities as well.
One of those places does have people doing community service as well.
One of those places does have people doing community service as well.
I was thinking of TV/newspaper adverts. As opposed to spending all my time on the Revenue's website.
Maybe you should have looked at the second article I linked to?
Francesca R
Girl
I don't think that spending on advertising is the best way to compare the resources the government puts behind benefit fraud and tax fraud detection respectively.
Francesca R
Girl
Total spending on enforcement would be better, and I already said I don't have it.
Whatever, if your statement that the "government [is] strangely quiet on the subject [of tax enforcement]" is only referring to media campaigns, it misses out quite a bit.
Well, if you don't know the figures, how do you know that the comparison is wrong? That is, that the media costs aren't in proportion to the total cost?
However, the media campaign is what impinges on the general public's consciousness, which relates the statement made by The Don about a 'strong message'.
Francesca R
Girl
Wrong way round--it is your comparison, and it's based on TV/print ads. Sure that impacts public consciousness but that doesn't mean it is valid for you to assume that the government is silent on tax enforcement. You already indicated you are not familiar with the work of HMRC anyway.
I suspect that media campaigns are a less effective tool for tax enforcement than they are for benefit fraud enforcement.
I assume you agree that it is legitimate for the state to tackle both?
I suspect that media campaigns are a less effective tool for tax enforcement than they are for benefit fraud enforcement.
I assume you agree that it is legitimate for the state to tackle both?
I worked for them for several years; though that was quite a while ago. Though I do still have a couple of friends who work for accountancy firms, making sure they find all the loop-holes. Mainly ex HMI Taxes people.
Oh, if you suspect that, it must be true. Of course, it's possible that they have been offering rewards to people snitching on tax cheats, like they did for benefit cheats. Don't remember seeing any though.
Yep; I just suspect that the government don't.
Interesting that this comment and mine earlier have been ignored by those who know this program just will not work.
Almo
Masterblazer
I find it interesting nobody has commented that this link doesn't work. I'd like to see this data.
geni
Anti-homeopathy illuminati member
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Not really. About the only group that would rack up more than the personal tax allowance are some of the drug dealers.
geni
Anti-homeopathy illuminati member
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2003
- Messages
- 28,209
There was some tory prat on the radio last night doing exactly that
Most workhouses lost money. Worse still the demand for Oakum has fallen since the victorian era.
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geni
Anti-homeopathy illuminati member
- Joined
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- Messages
- 28,209
Neither comment addresses the problem that there simply are not enough jobs to go around. No program can work if there are simply not enough jobs for people to get.
Yes they can, and they do. These programs prepare people for jobs as they become available in the future. Failure to properly prepare and train the unemployed for new jobs will lead to damaging skills shortages as the economy recovers and grows.
I'm all for training, learning skills and that side of it but this is not about that. If it was they wouldn't have scaled back (and I believe are phasing out entirely) the schemes and courses that did that but are comparatively (in the short-term) "expensive" to fund. What they are proposing is people being forced to pick up litter and the like That is not about developing skills and helping people back to work, it is about punishment.