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Top 5 Skeptical Fallacies

Not at all. All that's needed is a little less vitriol, which I see the vast majority of coming from the skeptical side.

You did see the list I posted? And that was from just page one of this thread.

This thread's a very good example. I only joined in because some of the points made in the OP are 100% correct.

You want intellectual integrity? Ask your fellow posters to avoid logical fallacies when dealing with bigfoot discussions.

Take a look at this bucket of emotion:



Yep, that makes perfect sense.

I love the way examples of what I am trying to point out litter the path like manna from heaven. I couldn't have even thought that up as a strawman, so bloody well played!



Never.

The facts are very simple. Bigfoot supporters believe it exists.

There is no evidence.

The end.



Oh, please cut the baloney. The idea of biology never enters the head of 99% of bigfoot supporters.

You are attacking a strawman. Even though there are some on the sasquatch side who call biology, they are the extreme minority.

What you're doing is identical to saying all christians are scum because Fred Phelps.



Mate, give yourself a hearty pat on the back.

The lengths scientists will go to in the name of truth.



The rules, the capitalisation, the wall of text...

Your vehemence is showing, if not your coherence.

This is sensational stuff, by the way. This is * checks OP * yep, a discussion about logical fallacies in skepticism. It is in the skepticism section.

I haven't got a clue what you're so worked up about, but it's an outstanding example of emotion on a subject not worth a dime.



Gosh, I hope you can explain what on earth you mean here, because it appears to be entirely paradoxical and/or completely wrong.

One of my best mates is a believer in bigfoot. Penny the female sasquatch, to be precise, and I never dismiss science, nor have I suggested it.

As above, your posts are incoherent.

I don't wonder why.



Two things:

1 It's "domineering"

2 Check the posts and tell me which ones are domineering, especially when compared to thine own.



Funny, none of the bits I quoted were all that funny, although the sarcastic one was almost amusing.

Laughing is fine; sarcasm is excellent.

"Nutjob" tends to work against the writer rather than the subject.

Shall we get back to logical fallacies now?


What one finds humorous is quite obviously a matter of opinion, and you don't seem very humorous, in my opinion. But I digress... My actual comment that you quoted was that I think OS is talking some absolute drivel, can you please explain to me in detail exactly how my comment was incorrect? I mean, have you read the bloody OP? I never mentioned anything about a "nutjob," so yeah, let's get back to logical fallacies, mate, eh? :rolleyes:
 
Not at all. All that's needed is a little less vitriol, which I see the vast majority of coming from the skeptical side.
Okay, so tone. I understand that; it's in the MA to be nice. I don't always succeed.

I only joined in because some of the points made in the OP are 100% correct.
Here I veer-off. I agree that the OP supports my campaign to free the Elves, though. It's all about the free Elves.

Many good points to the OP's list have been posted. You have not really engaged any of them other than to wave a finger and … lean on the vehemence a little.

You want intellectual integrity? Ask your fellow posters to avoid logical fallacies when dealing with bigfoot discussions.
Fellow posters, heed me: Avoid logical fallacies when dealing with Bigfoot discussions.

There.

The facts are very simple. Bigfoot supporters believe it exists.

There is no evidence.

The end.

Well, I'm glad you stepped-in. We can close the forum now. I gotta wash some dishes, that pile's been stacking.

Oh, please cut the baloney. The idea of biology never enters the head of 99% of bigfoot supporters.
This line is weird. You want us to be nice, but you don't want us to argue. We can't say biology and bigfoot in the same sentence, but we must not raise the spectre of delusion, fantasy and so on? Or we can, because that's okay? Who knows?

Look, here's a crown; you're King of the Bigfoot threads. Now lay out the rules.

What you're doing is identical to saying all christians are scum because Fred Phelps.
All that's needed is a little less vitriol. To quote a member.

So, got anything to say about the logical fallacies?
 
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My actual comment that you quoted was that I think OS is talking some absolute drivel, can you please explain to me in detail exactly how my comment was incorrect? I mean, have you read the bloody OP? I never mentioned anything about a "nutjob," so yeah, let's get back to logical fallacies, mate, eh? :rolleyes:

Maybe you should read your own post at some stage, because my answer fits it perfectly.

Here's what you said, in its entirety:

And? What on earth is your point? You can see plenty of similar posts from believers in many of the appropriate threads on this very website.

No mention of the OP, but a clear tu quoque fallacy. (Although I'd argue it's doesn't even reach tu quoque because I am yet to see examples of similar invective from the bigfoot camp.)

If you're trying to make out like anyone should feel guilty for laughing at this utter tripe, then all I can say is LOL.

This isn't about making people feel bad, or trying to shatter a simple man's dream. It's about being a fully-grown human adult who can laugh at obvious nonsense in the same way he/she can laugh at an obvious joke. If this isn't an obvious joke, then I hereby ask that anyone starting another Bigfoot thread please begin it with a "Knock Knock..."

No mention of the OP again.

Now read my answer in that context and it should all be crystal clear.

Mate.

Okay, so tone. I understand that; it's in the MA to be nice. I don't always succeed.

Fair enough then.

Here I veer-off. I agree that the OP supports my campaign to free the Elves, though. It's all about the free Elves.

Phew. At first glance I thought you'd said "Elvis".

Nobody's supposed to know where he is.

Many good points to the OP's list have been posted. You have not really engaged any of them other than to wave a finger and … lean on the vehemence a little.

If the fallacies hadn't continued immediately, I wouldn't have had anything to say at all.

If you're seeing vehemence on my side, you have the wrong filter on.

Fellow posters, heed me: Avoid logical fallacies when dealing with Bigfoot discussions.

There.

Piece of cake.

This line is weird. You want us to be nice, but you don't want us to argue. We can't say biology and bigfoot in the same sentence, but we must not raise the spectre of delusion, fantasy and so on? Or we can, because that's okay? Who knows?

No, you've mis-read me. If biology is raised, by all means laugh at the suggestion and lampoon those who call for inclusion of bigfoot as a species.

You could just as easily tell them that when they have the DNA from bigfoot, Yowie, the yeti and Nessie, you'll hold a symposium to discuss them.

Even raising delusion would be fine in that context, because asking for status for bigfoot is directly equivalent to appointing an Earth ambassador to Mars.

Look, here's a crown; you're King of the Bigfoot threads. Now lay out the rules.

See, sarcasm's fine and that's almost funny.


All that's needed is a little less vitriol. To quote a member.

So, got anything to say about the logical fallacies?

Nah, I think we have them all now. We did manage to add tu quoque to the list, though.
 
Maybe you should read your own post at some stage, because my answer fits it perfectly.

Here's what you said, in its entirety:



No mention of the OP, but a clear tu quoque fallacy. (Although I'd argue it's doesn't even reach tu quoque because I am yet to see examples of similar invective from the bigfoot camp.)



No mention of the OP again.

Now read my answer in that context and it should all be crystal clear.

Mate.



Fair enough then.



Phew. At first glance I thought you'd said "Elvis".

Nobody's supposed to know where he is.



If the fallacies hadn't continued immediately, I wouldn't have had anything to say at all.

If you're seeing vehemence on my side, you have the wrong filter on.



Piece of cake.



No, you've mis-read me. If biology is raised, by all means laugh at the suggestion and lampoon those who call for inclusion of bigfoot as a species.

You could just as easily tell them that when they have the DNA from bigfoot, Yowie, the yeti and Nessie, you'll hold a symposium to discuss them.

Even raising delusion would be fine in that context, because asking for status for bigfoot is directly equivalent to appointing an Earth ambassador to Mars.



See, sarcasm's fine and that's almost funny.




Nah, I think we have them all now. We did manage to add tu quoque to the list, though.

What are you even chatting about? My point was that the OP was nonsense, and I stand by my point, and I think you have a problem with it mainly because you have a female friend who also believes in Bigfoot and I think you'd like to be the knight in shining armour. That's cute, mate.

I think it's you who needs to re read the last several posts, as the post I was referring to was the one which you quoted originally, about us being nasty name-callers. You quoted me, and then made a comment about another post containing the word "nutjob," I never mentioned any nutjob, and my comment, that you quoted, was me talking about how the OP was drivel. So why are you now posting a comment that I made afterwards as though this was the comment I was referring to, and asking me to re read it? lol. Why would I need to mention the OP when my actual post is referring to how nonsensical the OP is?

You seem confused here...mate :rolleyes:

But, by all means, keep on keeping on in...whatever it is that you're doing here. Also, you claim to have not seen any of this "behaviour" from Bigfoot believers, all I can say is you're not looking in the right places. We have threads on this very site with many barbed comments from proponents...But hey, your best mate Penny is a believer, so you go get 'em, champ!
 
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Never mind the barbed comments from proponents. It's their tactics that are deplorable. The constant question dodging, the incessant obfuscation, the outright lying , the manipulation, etc. All the anti social behavior is okay, as long as no one uses any nasty words or logical fallacies?
 
The post that I made on the first page basically points out the common issues with arguments that are made in support of the claim that cryptids don't exist. It's interesting to read some of the responses here. I already knew beforehand that the examples are correct, but I was curious to see what the people here think of it. If anything, this thread further shows that the posts made by some of these so-called skeptics on the subject of Bigfoot are made up of nothing but denial and personal attacks. It's not real skepticism at all. Whatever it is, it's messed up.
 
The post that I made on the first page basically points out the common issues with arguments that are made in support of the claim that cryptids don't exist. It's interesting to read some of the responses here. I already knew beforehand that the examples are correct, but I was curious to see what the people here think of it. If anything, this thread further shows that the posts made by some of these so-called skeptics on the subject of Bigfoot are made up of nothing but denial and personal attacks. It's not real skepticism at all. Whatever it is, it's messed up.

There's a way to make them all shut up: show us the 'squatch.
 
The post that I made on the first page basically points out the common issues with arguments that are made in support of the claim that cryptids don't exist. It's interesting to read some of the responses here. I already knew beforehand that the examples are correct, but I was curious to see what the people here think of it. If anything, this thread further shows that the posts made by some of these so-called skeptics on the subject of Bigfoot are made up of nothing but denial and personal attacks. It's not real skepticism at all. Whatever it is, it's messed up.

If you have failed to understand why the responses here invalidate your OP, then it is not inconsistent that you believe in Bigfoot. If I used your logic, I would too.

I had hoped that you would understand what the other posters were trying to tell you as to the OP, which is actually a different issue from whether Bigfoot actually exists or not. But you claim that none of what was posted led you to see how your list totally misunderstands the flaws in actual logical fallacies. Okay- I am disappointed. Which I would not be if you had simply proved Bigfoot real.
 
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The post that I made on the first page basically points out the common issues with arguments that are made in support of the claim that cryptids don't exist. It's interesting to read some of the responses here. I already knew beforehand that the examples are correct, but I was curious to see what the people here think of it. If anything, this thread further shows that the posts made by some of these so-called skeptics on the subject of Bigfoot are made up of nothing but denial and personal attacks. It's not real skepticism at all. Whatever it is, it's messed up.

Interesting bit of assuming your consequent.

Let's look again:

It has been explained to you how you are wrong about your inside-out-construction of the "Appeal to Ignorance".

Beyond the fact that you construct your argument incorrectly, you characterize it incorrectly, also.

Here is reality: Large animals leave copious evidence of their existence (middens, orts, dens, tracks, corpses, young, hair...). A 9-foot tall undiscovered primate is a large animal. Since there has yet to be presented actual physical evidence of the existence of 'Squatch (no middens, no ort, no bone, no hair, no corpses, no dens, no young...) there is no reason to accept unsupported claims that "Squatch exists.

#1 is not correct, no matter what you thought you knew beforehand.


While it may, in fact, be true that a majority of scientists and other iterested parties have no reason to accept unsupported claims that "Squatch exists, that consensus is an effect, not a cause. I for one (to give a minor example) am not persuaded by the consensus that 'Squatch does not exist. I am persuaded by the utter lack of actual evidence (se above); and, because of that, I can be counted in the consensus.

#2 is not correct, no matter what you thought you knew beforehand.


It has been pointed out to you , multiple times that you are trying to shift the onus, in #3. "Bigfoot exists" is a positive claim; it must be supported with evidence. "Bigfoot exists, and you can't prove it doesn't" is a schoolyard taunt, not logic.

#3 is not correct, no matter what you thought you knew beforehand.


There is an entire thread devoted to the problems with taking the PF as evidence. More than that, you are again confusing cause with effect. The PF does not in any way address the fact that there is none of the kind of physical evidence left by large animals presented to demonstrate the existence of 'Squatch. The PF is a red herring.

#4 is not correct, no matter what you thought you knew beforehand.


There is an entire thread devoted to the problems with taking the PF as evidence. More than that, you are again confusing cause with effect. The fact that a demonstrated fraud had been equivocal about many points of the provenance and genesis of the PGF is not the reason is is unconvincing, especially in light of the fact that none of the kind of physical evidence left by large animals has ever been presented in support of the existence of 'Squatch.

#5 is not correct, no matter what you thought you knew beforehand.
 
Interesting bit of assuming your consequent.

Let's look again:

It has been explained to you how you are wrong about your inside-out-construction of the "Appeal to Ignorance".

Beyond the fact that you construct your argument incorrectly, you characterize it incorrectly, also.

Here is reality: Large animals leave copious evidence of their existence (middens, orts, dens, tracks, corpses, young, hair...). A 9-foot tall undiscovered primate is a large animal. Since there has yet to be presented actual physical evidence of the existence of 'Squatch (no middens, no ort, no bone, no hair, no corpses, no dens, no young...) there is no reason to accept unsupported claims that "Squatch exists.

#1 is not correct, no matter what you thought you knew beforehand.


While it may, in fact, be true that a majority of scientists and other iterested parties have no reason to accept unsupported claims that "Squatch exists, that consensus is an effect, not a cause. I for one (to give a minor example) am not persuaded by the consensus that 'Squatch does not exist. I am persuaded by the utter lack of actual evidence (se above); and, because of that, I can be counted in the consensus.

#2 is not correct, no matter what you thought you knew beforehand.


It has been pointed out to you , multiple times that you are trying to shift the onus, in #3. "Bigfoot exists" is a positive claim; it must be supported with evidence. "Bigfoot exists, and you can't prove it doesn't" is a schoolyard taunt, not logic.

#3 is not correct, no matter what you thought you knew beforehand.


There is an entire thread devoted to the problems with taking the PF as evidence. More than that, you are again confusing cause with effect. The PF does not in any way address the fact that there is none of the kind of physical evidence left by large animals presented to demonstrate the existence of 'Squatch. The PF is a red herring.

#4 is not correct, no matter what you thought you knew beforehand.


There is an entire thread devoted to the problems with taking the PF as evidence. More than that, you are again confusing cause with effect. The fact that a demonstrated fraud had been equivocal about many points of the provenance and genesis of the PGF is not the reason is is unconvincing, especially in light of the fact that none of the kind of physical evidence left by large animals has ever been presented in support of the existence of 'Squatch.

#5 is not correct, no matter what you thought you knew beforehand.

All straw mans.
 
All straw mans?

Sweeping comment if I ever saw one.

Please have the courtesy to refute, point by point, as was afforded you, why you feel each point to be representative of a straw man fallacy.

If you choose not to, well that is your prerogative after all, but please understand how that undermines your position somewhat.

Your response pretty much amounts to nothing more than a blanket dismissal with no demonstrated grounds for such.


ETA: I don't expect that you will do the above, because I don't expect that you understand how to even. You have demonstrated a woeful lack of understanding when it comes to logical fallacies in general. So, it is probably fruitless of me to even expect you to respond in kind.

Perhaps there should be a fallacy describing the incorrect usage of fallacies?
 
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Anything I post will be argued against with more dishonest tactics and fallacies. That's how the discussion here works. For many here it's about staying in denial at all costs, not about getting to the truth. That's how it's always been over here, at least in the Bigfoot threads.
 
Anything I post will be argued against with more dishonest tactics and fallacies. That's how the discussion here works. For many here it's about staying in denial at all costs, not about getting to the truth. That's how it's always been over here, at least in the Bigfoot threads.

I don't see anything dishonest or a fallacy in the responses to you 5 theses in this thread (nor on the others, but let's just focus on this one for now). Could you point out some?

Hint: the posts refuting your list as not representing logical fallacies are quite correct for the reasons explained; you may wish to re-read these posts and consult an unbiased logician of your choice if you still don't see why.
 
Anything I post will be argued against with more dishonest tactics and fallacies. That's how the discussion here works. For many here it's about staying in denial at all costs, not about getting to the truth. That's how it's always been over here, at least in the Bigfoot threads.

Interestingly scurrilous little bit of well-poisoning, here.

I stronly suggest that you delineate precisely what in my post...
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10739556&postcount=94
...can be objectively considered "dishonest". Be specific.

Since you will not be able to do so, I even more strongly suggest that you withdraw this calumny, and apologize.

If it was not my post...
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10739556&postcount=94
...to which you were referring, say so.

If it was, step up and demonstrate.
 
Anything I post will be argued against with more dishonest tactics and fallacies.
You were kindly asked to detail in what way the points made in post #94 were straw man arguments; to continue ignoring these requests reflects exactly where the dishonesty lies.
That's how the discussion here works. For many here it's about staying in denial at all costs, not about getting to the truth.
It's been pointed out time after time that your understanding of the psychological defense mechanism known as denial is lacking; please, learn what it means.
http://psychology.about.com/od/theoriesofpersonality/ss/defensemech.htm#step3
That's how it's always been over here, at least in the Bigfoot threads.
Of course the existence of a non-existent creature is denied. What in the world would you expect?
 

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