ENCOURAGING BIG SUPPORT FOR THE DEBATE; MY FIRST POST HERE
Hi All,
This is my first post here at ISF; thanx for having me.
ENCOURAGING PARTICIPATION IN THE "tfk-Tony Sz" DEBATE
I'm just adding my voice in favor of the idea of this tfk-Tony Sz debate about to start over at "the911Forum"; and encouraging everybody else's attention & especially "participation". I've been a member over there since 2011 (but with only some 60 posts). My sparcity of posts is due to both being very busy elsewhere and because I am not a primary researcher nor do I have much technical expertise - so I've mostly read-along to learn. I think of myself as a political organizer, analyst, writer and "synthesizer" of the work of others. So the majority of my few posts have been to try to aid the flow of the discussion.
THE member there that I respect the most is OWE, the mod. I don't always agree with his politics, but, having attempted to lead others myself for many years, I think he has excellent mod skills; particularly in regards to handling procedural matters (keeping a discussion on track & reasonably-civil) and having the relevant technical expertise. He also tends to ask excellent questions - which help focus the discussion and/or clarify the points.
MY POLITICAL HISTORY & "CREDS" (credentials):
My "creds": I've been a heavy-duty peace-justice activist & organizer for 50+ years , starting with Student Rights & the Anti-War (In Vietnam/Indochina) Movement (in which I spent 40 hours a week, 50 weeks a year, 10 full years =20,000+ total hours of volunteer work); and continuing on thru today.
THE THREE THINGS THAT GOT MY POLITICAL ACTIVISM STARTED
What got me "started" was three things:
JFK: MARK LANE'S BOOK, "RUSH TO JUDGMENT"
1) I ran into Mark Lane's "Rush To Judgment" relatively soon after it came out. From then on I've been a skeptic.
"SEXILY CLAD WOMEN ARE 'GUILTY' FOR BEING RAPED"
2) Soon after that, it was the teacher/administrator-priests at my high school seminary (training to be a priest in the Carmelite Order (with the brown-colored clothes/gowns) of the Catholic Church). They all claimed, "If a girl/woman dresses sexy, then she deserves it if she gets raped!" I didn't know very much at all about the opposite sex back then; but I could not accept that the victim was guilty of the crime. This solidified/expanded my skepticism.
THE CATHOLIC CHURCH'S REFORMS & THE VIETNAM WAR
3) Around that time, Pope John Paul (the "first" of that name, iirc) initiated many reforms in Catholic Church procedures, including switching from Latin to English AND involving the congregation in the celebration of the Mass. We students now led the middle-of-the-Mass prayers; and this always started: "For the Pope In Rome, we pray to the Lord" Then everybody else would immediately respond, "Lord, hear our prayer!" Then we'd pray for the local Archbishop & lesser church officials, for our parents, etc. and it always ended with this: "For OUR men fighting and dying in Vietnam, we pray to the Lord" ... When it was my turn, I said, "For ALL the people fighting and dying in Vietnam ..." I was almost expelled on the spot for that. "We don't pray for the other side; we don't pray for those godless communists!"
(btw, as a school-child, I grew up with the daily drills of hiding under our school desks to "protect" ourselves from the Soviet nuclear weapons that we were told to expect to rain down on us at any moment.)
I thought, "What? God takes sides in human wars?" This contradiction caused my skepticism to become "universal" - questioning most if not all of the things I had been raised to believe and/or were commonly-held in (US) society.
MY EARLY POLITICAL ACTIVISM: STUDENTS' RIGHTS & ANTI-WAR
Upon entering college, I became both a "peace-love hippie" and a students' rights activist.
I also started going to anti-war demonstrations (back then in San Diego, where my family had moved, we'd average the same 8-9 people month after month; while in L.A. they had 10s of thousands & in San Fran. 100s of thousands). It was thru trying to do the right thing, vis-à-vis the War, that I learned a whole series of important lessons about society, the rules of the game, and about myself (especially about my strengths and weaknesses).
DESPITE PERSONALLY RESISTING IT, I ROSE IN THE LEADERSHIP RANKS
The more & longer I participated in peace-justice activism, the more I "rose" in leadership positions because of both the quantity of time I dedicated and because of the quality of my work - it turned out I was good at organizing things & especially people. This steady rise happened despite my resisting it due to being very concerned that it might go to my head. In my experience and opinion, there's NOTHING better for learning important lessons than trying to mobilize & lead others.
EVENTUALLY I BECAME A TOP SAN DIEGO ANTI-WAR MOVEMENT LEADER
Within a few years, I was one of the top anti-war leaders in San Diego; and was regularly traveling around California and across the US to participate in & speak at: Demonstrations, Marches, Conferences, etc. I authored more and more political articles (about the War & politics in general) which had an ever-increasing influence on popular consciousness & activity.
Despite our incredibly late & small start, eventually we became so strong that we "forced" the Republican National Presidential-Nominating Convention out of San Diego AT THE LAST MINUTE. (Right afterwards I thought, "We were too effective; it would have been better if they had stayed here because, relative to the people of Miami Beach, we're WAY better prepared to expose the war-mongers." I should note that we opposed the Democratic Party's war-mongers just as much.
OTHER POLITICAL MOVEMENTS I PARTICIPATED IN AND LED
I also participated in labor/union organizing and, due to that, got fired from more than one job; and, because I was effective enough, one time I was very seriously injured by my employer in an attempt on my life. (In the process, amongst a high percentage of Mexican and Mexican-American workers, I became fluent in Spanish; and have taught ESL ever since.)
I also got seriously involved in movements for: Women's Rights; Chicano Rights, (Cesar Chavez &) the Farmworkers Union & Cross-Border Issues; Black Rights & Against Apartheid In South Africa / Azania; Gay Rights; Support For The Struggle In Central America; the Rainbow Coalition, and others.
9/11
I became a 9/11 Truther ON 9/11 itself; due to the endless repetition of a public tragic scene - something that almost never was allowed. It shouted out to me: "Propaganda" and reminded me of the major propaganda campaigns waged decades earlier vis-à-vis: "Red Scare"; JFK/Lee Harvey Oswald; Vietnam & the Anti-War Movement ... perhaps averaging once a decade. I'm still a 911 Truther.
So, given the mix here of Truthers / Debunkers, my high-esteem for OWE (at "the911Forum") and his mod skills (despite some BIG differences we have on important questions) will probably cause strong reactions both positive & negative.
Debunkers here may tend to discredit my opinions due to me being a Truther; but this may be tempered by my "support" of OWE. Truthers here may tend to agree with my opinions; and thus think "we should give OWE & "the911Forum" a chance. This is my basic point in this post: Let's give the "tfk-Tony Sz Debate" over at "the911Forum" its best chance to succeed!
btw, I have previously read ALL of the posts at that Forum by tfk & by Tony Sz.
OVERALL, I BELIEVE IN & FIGHT HARD FOR U-N-I-T-Y, FIRST, LAST & ALWAYS
In a nutshell, what I stand for is UNITY (based on some minimum of good-moral principles). In everything I do, I try my best to help people unite for a better world.
THIS IS MY FIRST POST HERE. (I hope I’ve stayed within ISF’s guidelines AND not offended anybody.)
Thanx for having me,
Pablo
P.S. I realize that most of this post is a self-introduction; but I feel I owe it to the reader to explain where I’m coming from so as to better understand my position on the debate.
If it is allowed here, should I just go ahead and copy this post to the self-introduction thread? (You won't have to worry about me trying to build a big post-count.)
Hi All,
This is my first post here at ISF; thanx for having me.
ENCOURAGING PARTICIPATION IN THE "tfk-Tony Sz" DEBATE
I'm just adding my voice in favor of the idea of this tfk-Tony Sz debate about to start over at "the911Forum"; and encouraging everybody else's attention & especially "participation". I've been a member over there since 2011 (but with only some 60 posts). My sparcity of posts is due to both being very busy elsewhere and because I am not a primary researcher nor do I have much technical expertise - so I've mostly read-along to learn. I think of myself as a political organizer, analyst, writer and "synthesizer" of the work of others. So the majority of my few posts have been to try to aid the flow of the discussion.
THE member there that I respect the most is OWE, the mod. I don't always agree with his politics, but, having attempted to lead others myself for many years, I think he has excellent mod skills; particularly in regards to handling procedural matters (keeping a discussion on track & reasonably-civil) and having the relevant technical expertise. He also tends to ask excellent questions - which help focus the discussion and/or clarify the points.
MY POLITICAL HISTORY & "CREDS" (credentials):
My "creds": I've been a heavy-duty peace-justice activist & organizer for 50+ years , starting with Student Rights & the Anti-War (In Vietnam/Indochina) Movement (in which I spent 40 hours a week, 50 weeks a year, 10 full years =20,000+ total hours of volunteer work); and continuing on thru today.
THE THREE THINGS THAT GOT MY POLITICAL ACTIVISM STARTED
What got me "started" was three things:
JFK: MARK LANE'S BOOK, "RUSH TO JUDGMENT"
1) I ran into Mark Lane's "Rush To Judgment" relatively soon after it came out. From then on I've been a skeptic.
"SEXILY CLAD WOMEN ARE 'GUILTY' FOR BEING RAPED"
2) Soon after that, it was the teacher/administrator-priests at my high school seminary (training to be a priest in the Carmelite Order (with the brown-colored clothes/gowns) of the Catholic Church). They all claimed, "If a girl/woman dresses sexy, then she deserves it if she gets raped!" I didn't know very much at all about the opposite sex back then; but I could not accept that the victim was guilty of the crime. This solidified/expanded my skepticism.
THE CATHOLIC CHURCH'S REFORMS & THE VIETNAM WAR
3) Around that time, Pope John Paul (the "first" of that name, iirc) initiated many reforms in Catholic Church procedures, including switching from Latin to English AND involving the congregation in the celebration of the Mass. We students now led the middle-of-the-Mass prayers; and this always started: "For the Pope In Rome, we pray to the Lord" Then everybody else would immediately respond, "Lord, hear our prayer!" Then we'd pray for the local Archbishop & lesser church officials, for our parents, etc. and it always ended with this: "For OUR men fighting and dying in Vietnam, we pray to the Lord" ... When it was my turn, I said, "For ALL the people fighting and dying in Vietnam ..." I was almost expelled on the spot for that. "We don't pray for the other side; we don't pray for those godless communists!"
(btw, as a school-child, I grew up with the daily drills of hiding under our school desks to "protect" ourselves from the Soviet nuclear weapons that we were told to expect to rain down on us at any moment.)
I thought, "What? God takes sides in human wars?" This contradiction caused my skepticism to become "universal" - questioning most if not all of the things I had been raised to believe and/or were commonly-held in (US) society.
MY EARLY POLITICAL ACTIVISM: STUDENTS' RIGHTS & ANTI-WAR
Upon entering college, I became both a "peace-love hippie" and a students' rights activist.
I also started going to anti-war demonstrations (back then in San Diego, where my family had moved, we'd average the same 8-9 people month after month; while in L.A. they had 10s of thousands & in San Fran. 100s of thousands). It was thru trying to do the right thing, vis-à-vis the War, that I learned a whole series of important lessons about society, the rules of the game, and about myself (especially about my strengths and weaknesses).
DESPITE PERSONALLY RESISTING IT, I ROSE IN THE LEADERSHIP RANKS
The more & longer I participated in peace-justice activism, the more I "rose" in leadership positions because of both the quantity of time I dedicated and because of the quality of my work - it turned out I was good at organizing things & especially people. This steady rise happened despite my resisting it due to being very concerned that it might go to my head. In my experience and opinion, there's NOTHING better for learning important lessons than trying to mobilize & lead others.
EVENTUALLY I BECAME A TOP SAN DIEGO ANTI-WAR MOVEMENT LEADER
Within a few years, I was one of the top anti-war leaders in San Diego; and was regularly traveling around California and across the US to participate in & speak at: Demonstrations, Marches, Conferences, etc. I authored more and more political articles (about the War & politics in general) which had an ever-increasing influence on popular consciousness & activity.
Despite our incredibly late & small start, eventually we became so strong that we "forced" the Republican National Presidential-Nominating Convention out of San Diego AT THE LAST MINUTE. (Right afterwards I thought, "We were too effective; it would have been better if they had stayed here because, relative to the people of Miami Beach, we're WAY better prepared to expose the war-mongers." I should note that we opposed the Democratic Party's war-mongers just as much.
OTHER POLITICAL MOVEMENTS I PARTICIPATED IN AND LED
I also participated in labor/union organizing and, due to that, got fired from more than one job; and, because I was effective enough, one time I was very seriously injured by my employer in an attempt on my life. (In the process, amongst a high percentage of Mexican and Mexican-American workers, I became fluent in Spanish; and have taught ESL ever since.)
I also got seriously involved in movements for: Women's Rights; Chicano Rights, (Cesar Chavez &) the Farmworkers Union & Cross-Border Issues; Black Rights & Against Apartheid In South Africa / Azania; Gay Rights; Support For The Struggle In Central America; the Rainbow Coalition, and others.
9/11
I became a 9/11 Truther ON 9/11 itself; due to the endless repetition of a public tragic scene - something that almost never was allowed. It shouted out to me: "Propaganda" and reminded me of the major propaganda campaigns waged decades earlier vis-à-vis: "Red Scare"; JFK/Lee Harvey Oswald; Vietnam & the Anti-War Movement ... perhaps averaging once a decade. I'm still a 911 Truther.
So, given the mix here of Truthers / Debunkers, my high-esteem for OWE (at "the911Forum") and his mod skills (despite some BIG differences we have on important questions) will probably cause strong reactions both positive & negative.
Debunkers here may tend to discredit my opinions due to me being a Truther; but this may be tempered by my "support" of OWE. Truthers here may tend to agree with my opinions; and thus think "we should give OWE & "the911Forum" a chance. This is my basic point in this post: Let's give the "tfk-Tony Sz Debate" over at "the911Forum" its best chance to succeed!
btw, I have previously read ALL of the posts at that Forum by tfk & by Tony Sz.
OVERALL, I BELIEVE IN & FIGHT HARD FOR U-N-I-T-Y, FIRST, LAST & ALWAYS
In a nutshell, what I stand for is UNITY (based on some minimum of good-moral principles). In everything I do, I try my best to help people unite for a better world.
THIS IS MY FIRST POST HERE. (I hope I’ve stayed within ISF’s guidelines AND not offended anybody.)
Thanx for having me,
Pablo
P.S. I realize that most of this post is a self-introduction; but I feel I owe it to the reader to explain where I’m coming from so as to better understand my position on the debate.
If it is allowed here, should I just go ahead and copy this post to the self-introduction thread? (You won't have to worry about me trying to build a big post-count.)
