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Tony Szamboti vs. tfk Debate

Why?

Several engineering organisations agree on the cause. There is no published alternative to fire and damage caused the collapses.

Why can't you do the work needed to prove you're belief?

The reports are wrong and so are you.

I don't need to provide an alternative prior to a new investigation being initiated. That is what it is for, to provide the answers the demonstrably incorrect first attempt did not.

It is quite amazing that you would think an alternative needs to be put forward by citizens who found fault in an initial investigation and showed it was incorrect.

You are basically saying we should accept garbage unless we solve the crime. This is astounding to hear.
 
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Fire, in conjunction with impact damage on its south wall, was responsible for the collapse of WTC 7.

Impact damage also explains why WTC 7 tilted toward the south in the final seconds of its collapse.


Brent Blanchard: Demolition Expert

Did experts on the scene think WTC 7 was a controlled demolition?


Several demolition teams had reached Ground Zero by 3:00 pm on 9/11, and these individuals witnessed the collapse of WTC 7 from within a few hundred feet of the event. We have spoken with several who possess extensive experience in explosive demolition, and all reported seeing or hearing nothing to indicate an explosive detonation precipitating the collapse.

https://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/wtc7videoincludingeastmechanicalpenthous
 
Fire, in conjunction with impact damage on its south wall, was responsible for the collapse of WTC 7.

Impact damage also explains why WTC 7 tilted toward the south in the final seconds of its collapse.


Brent Blanchard: Demolition Expert

Did experts on the scene think WTC 7 was a controlled demolition?


Several demolition teams had reached Ground Zero by 3:00 pm on 9/11, and these individuals witnessed the collapse of WTC 7 from within a few hundred feet of the event. We have spoken with several who possess extensive experience in explosive demolition, and all reported seeing or hearing nothing to indicate an explosive detonation precipitating the collapse.

https://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/wtc7videoincludingeastmechanicalpenthous

You should tell NIST what you think took down WTC 7 because they haven't determined the cause yet.

I think Brent Blanchard is more accurately described as a demolition reporter and his opinion based article is trumped by LDEO data showing there is seismographic evidence of explosions at the WTC site on Sept. 11, 2001.
 
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The reports are wrong and so are you.

I don't need to provide an alternative prior to a new investigation being initiated. That is what it is for, to provide the answers the demonstrably incorrect first attempt did not.

It is quite amazing that you would think an alternative needs to be put forward by citizens who found fault in an initial investigation and showed it was incorrect.

You are basically saying we should accept garbage unless we solve the crime. This is astounding to hear.
The report on your part would be needed to prove what you are proposing is correct. You propose that CD is the correct alternative. Proving the NIST or others wrong does not bring CD into play.
 
The report on your part would be needed to prove what you are proposing is correct. You propose that CD is the correct alternative. Proving the NIST or others wrong does not bring CD into play.

Do you agree that if a report is incorrect it needs to be redone.
 
Do you agree that if a report is incorrect it needs to be redone.
Who needs NIST, only 9/11 truth to spread BS about CD.

Smoking guns gone wild... no evidence, no clue, the CD fantasy. Fantasy of explosions, silent ones.

You lost the Debate, now what? Disneyland... fantasyland for CD fantasy fans
 
It all goes back to a comment I made years ago.
The experts all agree that , for example, a 4 bolt pattern failure in beam "A" was responsible for the ultimate failure of a system. The truthers note that Expert B states that it is likely that bolt c or f failed in shear, expert D says it is likely bolt h or j failed in shear, and expert g says that it could have been due to tear-out in the parent material.
Truthers say "see! The report is flawed! Somebody sawed through all the bolts!"
 
You should tell NIST what you think took down WTC 7 because they haven't determined the cause yet.


It was evident what caused the collapse of WTC 7 considering that fires raged out of control for hours. Apparently, firefighters and others knew that WTC 7 would eventually collapse based on structural buckling alone and you don't even need a computer model. Simply build a wax model of WTC 7 and leave it in a hot sun and see what happens next, but don't forget to add that gouge on the south wall of your model, which was observed by WTC 7 witnesses.

It didn't take a computer model to predict that WTC 7 would tilt toward the south as it collapsed because all it took was structural knowledge and common sense, and it amazes me that so-called structural experts tend to overlook structural load redistribution in the presence of uncontrolled fires where massive impact damage occurred.

In regard to steel structures, I have mentioned in the past that I could have placed 1000 pounds of explosives on each floor level of the WTC Towers without structural pre-weakening and detonate the explosives all at once and the end-result will look like this.

Photo

http://www.jadaliyya.com/content_images/3/Aftermathpic1.jpg


Any demolition expert would know that if a building is not properly prepared or structurally pre-weakened properly before explosives are placed, then you will get the following results.


Failed Demolition Videos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwGE92upfQM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAdoyPoUmj0


The buckling observed on WTC 7 was an indication that fires, which raged out of control for hours, were slowly weakening the steel structure of WTC 7 and the sounds from within WTC 7 was another indication of structural weakening.

I like to keep things simple.


I think Brent Blanchard is more accurately described as a demolition reporter and his opinion based article is trumped by LDEO data showing there is seismographic evidence of explosions at the WTC site on Sept. 11, 2001.


Why did you attempt to pull the wool over my eyes? Brent Blanchard is a world leading demolition expert and his company was using seismic monitors during the 9/11 attack.

Let's take a look here.

9/11 Seismic Recordings

Brent Blanchard devotes section 4 of his paper to the issue of seismic recordings on 9/11. Blanchard is Senior Editor of ImplosionWorld, a website which posts details of explosive demolitions, and also Director of Field Operations at Protec Documentation Services, Inc. Protec works in the field of vibration monitoring and structure inspection, a key service to both the construction and demolition industries.

Vibration monitoring performed by independent experts has long been considered crucial for companies carrying out explosive demolition, because owners of nearby buildings are keen to sue if any cracks or other structural damage appears.

The field seismographs used by Protec and others provide the key scientific evidence for disturbances that may have caused damage, and there were a number of such seismographs operated by Protec on 9/11 in the vicinity of Ground Zero, for monitoring construction sites. Blanchard tells us that data from these machines, and seismographs operated elsewhere, all confirm single vibration events recording the collapse. None of them record the tell-tale 'spikes' that would indicate explosive detonations prior to collapse.

http://www.jnani.org/mrking/writings/911/king911.htm

There is no seismic data that depicts demolition explosions as the WTC buildings collapsed and WTC collapse videos can be used to match the seismic data in order to underline the fact that no demolition explosions occurred.
 
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I think Brent Blanchard is more accurately described as a demolition reporter and his opinion based article is trumped by LDEO data showing there is seismographic evidence of explosions at the WTC site on Sept. 11, 2001.


Now, for the rest of the story.


Brent Blanchard

Brent L. Blanchard currently serves as Operations Manager for Protec Documentation Services Inc., Rancocas Woods, New Jersey. The firm performs vibration consulting, structural survey and photographic work for contractors throughout the United States and abroad.

In addition, Mr. Blanchard is a senior writer for implosionworld.com, a website that publishes news and information related to the explosive demolition industry. His team's work is also regularly published in various periodicals such as The Journal of Explosives Engineering (ISEE-USA), Explosives Engineering (IEE-UK), Demolition Magazine, Demolition & Recycling International, Constructioneer and Construction News.

http://www.implosionworld.com/history4.htm


Lamont-Doherty Seismic Report

"There is no scientific basis for the conclusion that explosions brought down the towers," Lerner-Lam tells PM. "That representation of our work is categorically incorrect and not in context."

The report issued by Lamont-Doherty includes various graphs showing the seismic readings produced by the planes crashing into the two towers as well as the later collapse of both buildings. WhatReallyHappened.com chooses to display only one graph (Graph 1), which shows the readings over a 30-minute time span.

On that graph, the 8- and 10-second collapses appear—misleadingly—as a pair of sudden spikes. Lamont-Doherty's 40-second plot of the same data (Graph 2) gives a much more detailed picture: The seismic waves—blue for the South Tower, red for the North Tower—start small and then escalate as the buildings rumble to the ground. Translation: no bombs.
 
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Who needs NIST, only 9/11 truth to spread BS about CD.

Smoking guns gone wild... no evidence, no clue, the CD fantasy. Fantasy of explosions, silent ones.

You lost the Debate, now what? Disneyland... fantasyland for CD fantasy fans

Two groups need NIST:

Engineers whose careers depend on making the safest structures they can.
and
Idiot Truthers.


Engineers got what they needed from NIST, scientific information. But so did Truthers. They need a boogeyman!
 
Do you agree that if a report is incorrect it needs to be redone.
No only if the conclusions are grossly incompetent, and NIST's are not, that said I don't give a flying monkeys behind about NIST.

I only care about the science.

Science is at the foundation of the National Institute of Standards and Technology, (NIST).

Financed by tax payers, the NIST spent over 7 years analyzing the WTC7 engineering data.

The NIST, using unequivocal language, declared that; “The heat from the uncontrolled fires caused steel floor beams and girders to thermally expand, leading to a chain of events that caused a key structural column to fail [column 79]. The failure of this structural column then initiated a fire-induced progressive collapse of the entire building.”

Supposedly, they reached this major finding by combining science and structural data correctly.

But the NIST analysis depends on a “key” structural component failure that they believe precipitated WTC7’s global collapse.

The NIST not only claim that column 79 failed, but that it had to be the first column to fail.

The NIST describe in significant detail how they envisioned thermal expansion ultimately dislodging column 79.

Since both sides of the argument must accept that column 79 ultimately failed, the critical issue is what could have lead to such a catastrophic event.

CD is the simplest and most scientifically provable explanation.

It is also the most politically unpalatable.

ARUP analysis apparently lends support to the NIST’s thermal expansion hypothesis, but ARUP also used unrealistic temperatures localized for incredibly long periods, and as Tony has pointed out, ARUP “does not support the NIST postulation that column 79 buckled low in the building.”

When you also factor in other important NIST omissions, like girder stiffeners, the NIST failure to achieve their mandated goal becomes all the more glaring.
 
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When you also factor in other important NIST omissions, like girder stiffeners, the NIST failure to achieve their mandated goal becomes all the more glaring.
Why would an engineer leave out something? Why do the people who design flight control systems for commercial airline, subsonic ones, leave out the component of lift due to the earth's rotation from the systems?

Do you do engineering, or just make up failed opinions about your CD fantasy and the delusional inside job; why can't you name the people who did your fantasy version of 9/11? Even the FBI figured out who did 9/11, why can't you do it after 15 years of BS, lies and really dumb opinions.

Wow, repeating failed 9/11 truth tag lines; sounds like a cult to me.

IF you claim CD, then the investigation goes to the FBI; have you given the FBI your evidence for CD? No, 9/11 truth posts fantasy claims in the conspiracy section of a skeptic forum. Why are you not skeptical of Gage and his CD lie?
 
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​


Science is at the foundation of the National Institute of Standards and Technology, (NIST).

Financed by tax payers, the NIST spent over 7 years analyzing the WTC7 engineering data.

The NIST, using unequivocal language, declared that; “The heat from the uncontrolled fires caused steel floor beams and girders to thermally expand, leading to a chain of events that caused a key structural column to fail [column 79]. The failure of this structural column then initiated a fire-induced progressive collapse of the entire building.”

Supposedly, they reached this major finding by combining science and structural data correctly.

But the NIST analysis depends on a “key” structural component failure that they believe precipitated WTC7’s global collapse.

The NIST not only claim that column 79 failed, but that it had to be the first column to fail.

The NIST describe in significant detail how they envisioned thermal expansion ultimately dislodging column 79.

Since both sides of the argument must accept that column 79 ultimately failed, the critical issue is what could have lead to such a catastrophic event.

You're a hell of a conductor! Well said.

CD is the simplest and most scientifically provable explanation.

oops. Train's derailed.

If CD is the "SIMPLEST" (your words as you can see) and most scientifically provable explanation, why haven't you friggin people explained it yet????
 
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CD is the simplest and most scientifically provable explanation.


False! There is no evidence of explosions in the WTC 7 video and structural and demolition experts concur that fire, not explosives, was responsible for the collapse of WTC 7.

When you also factor in other important NIST omissions, like girder stiffeners, the NIST failure to achieve their mandated goal becomes all the more glaring.


Stiffeners are just as vulnerable to heat as well.
 
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CD is the simplest and most scientifically provable explanation.

If it had been a CD, you wouldn't need any "scientifically provable explanation" to convince the hundreds of thousands of people in Manhattan who would have know it immediately when they heard it and felt it, and you wouldn't need anything but the dozens of videos to convince me because then I could clearly hear it, too. But if you needed more than that, obvious things to look for would be structural steel in the debris that had been cut with explosives and fragments of demolition devices. If it had been a CD, you should also expect to see windows broken for blocks around, and you should find evidence in the seismographic records.

Considering that CD has already been "scientifically" disproved by testing the consequences of the hypothesis, I consider it to be one of the most idiotic conspiracy theories ever devised.
 
​


Science is at the foundation of the National Institute of Standards and Technology, (NIST).

Financed by tax payers, the NIST spent over 7 years analyzing the WTC7 engineering data.

The NIST, using unequivocal language, declared that; “The heat from the uncontrolled fires caused steel floor beams and girders to thermally expand, leading to a chain of events that caused a key structural column to fail [column 79]. The failure of this structural column then initiated a fire-induced progressive collapse of the entire building.”

Supposedly, they reached this major finding by combining science and structural data correctly.

But the NIST analysis depends on a “key” structural component failure that they believe precipitated WTC7’s global collapse.

The NIST not only claim that column 79 failed, but that it had to be the first column to fail.

The NIST describe in significant detail how they envisioned thermal expansion ultimately dislodging column 79.

Since both sides of the argument must accept that column 79 ultimately failed, the critical issue is what could have lead to such a catastrophic event.

CD is the simplest and most scientifically provable explanation.

It is also the most politically unpalatable.

ARUP analysis apparently lends support to the NIST’s thermal expansion hypothesis, but ARUP also used unrealistic temperatures localized for incredibly long periods, and as Tony has pointed out, ARUP “does not support the NIST postulation that column 79 buckled low in the building.”

When you also factor in other important NIST omissions, like girder stiffeners, the NIST failure to achieve their mandated goal becomes all the more glaring.

CD. Is not even a coherent scientific probability until a theory that is viable and probable is expressed, yes I know a theory where and How CD could have been done to 7, and know one could tell it was but me, but that is because I actually experimented into it.
Also since no one has proposed the same theory, I see no point in expressing it here, CD is do able but not probable, and is problematic.
So CD until actual evidence appears is ruled out from lack of said evidence.
 
198 ear-splitting explosions, minimum, in the course of a second or so, to bring down WTC7 in the way Szamboti and Criteria describe.

Didn't happen. Fact.

Has this been mentioned before?
 

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