• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Tom Cruise again

When it comes to a real health issue, I'll bet Tom Cruise will have no problem seeing a real doctor, especially if his life depended on it.

How the hell do these cults warp people like this? Amazing.
 
Firstly, my memory is hazy - but don't Scien's believe something along the line that aliens are trying to brainwash people through their psychiatrist workers? Isn't that the basis of L-Rons rationale for shunning the psychiatry profession? The same profession who provided L-Ron his drugs prior to his death....

The Waco suicide thing shouldn't be disregarded you know. They haven't revealed what will be in OT9 yet.....
 
When I saw this, I vowed never to see a movie with Tom Cruise in it again. He'll not get a penny of my money, because that was dangerous and irresponsible. Where does someone who believes in E-meters get off calling ANYTHING pseudoscience?

My brother has generalized anxiety disorder. He literally can't leave the house at times without medication. A close friend is OCD, and gets suicidal without medication. Another childhood friend had severe ADD. The days he didn't take his medication he was absolutely unbearable. He drove himself insane. I can remember him nearly breaking into tears from frustration that he couldn't concentrate or keep still.

I wish as much as anyone else that these wonderful and capable people could just think their way out of these maladaptive behavioral patterns, but that is just a fantasy. I care about these people deeply, and I am greatful they are able to live very productive lives because of this medication and therapy. My brother is getting a degree in computer science now and creates fantastic electronic music. My OCD friend is earning a PhD in history from a VERY good university. The ADD friend is a cinematographer in L.A. Maybe he'll shoot a movie with Cruise in it some day. Their problems are not made up, as Cruise seems to think (i.e. "no chemical imbalance.") It's not that simple. Because we've listened and taken these problems seriously as a society, because we've done our best to apply the scientific method to our own behavior, we've been able to improve my friends' quality of life.

Cruise did a lot of damage saying these things. Think of all of the unstable celebrity worshippers who might believe his pathetic "I know the history of psychology" appeal to nonexistent authority. I'm not going to pretend like psychology is a perfect field, but it's made a lot of progress and benefitted a lot of people. A lot more people than Scientology ever will.
 
delphi_ote said:
When I saw this, I vowed never to see a movie with Tom Cruise in it again. He'll not get a penny of my money, because that was dangerous and irresponsible. Where does someone who believes in E-meters get off calling ANYTHING pseudoscience?

My brother has generalized anxiety disorder. He literally can't leave the house at times without medication. A close friend is OCD, and gets suicidal without medication. Another childhood friend had severe ADD. The days he didn't take his medication he was absolutely unbearable. He drove himself insane. I can remember him nearly breaking into tears from frustration that he couldn't concentrate or keep still.

I wish as much as anyone else that these wonderful and capable people could just think their way out of these maladaptive behavioral patterns, but that is just a fantasy. I care about these people deeply, and I am greatful they are able to live very productive lives because of this medication and therapy. My brother is getting a degree in computer science now and creates fantastic electronic music. My OCD friend is earning a PhD in history from a VERY good university. The ADD friend is a cinematographer in L.A. Maybe he'll shoot a movie with Cruise in it some day. Their problems are not made up, as Cruise seems to think (i.e. "no chemical imbalance.") It's not that simple. Because we've listened and taken these problems seriously as a society, because we've done our best to apply the scientific method to our own behavior, we've been able to improve my friends' quality of life.

Cruise did a lot of damage saying these things. Think of all of the unstable celebrity worshippers who might believe his pathetic "I know the history of psychology" appeal to nonexistent authority. I'm not going to pretend like psychology is a perfect field, but it's made a lot of progress and benefitted a lot of people. A lot more people than Scientology ever will.
Click to expand...
I can't help but think that Tom Cruise's outbursts can only do good.

First of all, he's being regarded as more of a circus sideshow freak than a respected spokesman of anything, and second of all, by showing glimpses of how dangerous and deluded Scientology is, I think he's putting off a lot of people who might have fallen into the Scientology trap.

Let's be honest, most of us nowadays know people who have genuinely been helped by anti-depressants. The evidence is all around us. So when Tom Cruise tells us that vitamins and exercise will solve all problems, he just looks like a brainwashed idiot.
 
lumos said:
When it comes to a real health issue, I'll bet Tom Cruise will have no problem seeing a real doctor, especially if his life depended on it.

How the hell do these cults warp people like this? Amazing.
Click to expand...

Scientology uses brainwashing techniques to do this, literally. One of their basic "technologies" is to sit the victim down, keep repeating phrases to them and tell them to try and ignore it. It's supposed to be a way to get them to learn how to not be distracted, but repetition of phrases tends to get those thoughts cemented. There are many different brainwashing tactics they use on their people, but they call them techniques to help "better" the lives.
 
I was told once that Scientology was started by L. Ron Hubbard as a bet. Has anyone heard this and is there any truth to it?
 
Ripley Twenty-Nine said:
Let's be honest, most of us nowadays know people who have genuinely been helped by anti-depressants. The evidence is all around us. So when Tom Cruise tells us that vitamins and exercise will solve all problems, he just looks like a brainwashed idiot.
Click to expand...

Yes, most clear headed individuals see this. But we're not the ones who might need therapy or medication are we? It doesn't take much for an unstable person to convince themselves they don't need their meds anymore. Bipolars during a manic phase or a depressed person in a catatonic low or even just someone wanting to believe they're cured and feel normal are vulnerable. I've watched this struggle first hand with my brother. Watched him feel weak or dependent because he had to go back to a higher dose when he wants to just be free of the medication and problems and feel normal.

There is a cult of celebrity out there fawning for every scrap these people drop from the table. They are impressionable. Cruise is charismatic. If he keeps up with this message, I think that's very irresposible. He's unrepentant, and clearly thought he was well informed in that interview.

I think we should take this as seriously as Randi took the faith healers who told people to throw their heart medication away. It's a serious danger.
 
aargh57 said:
I was told once that Scientology was started by L. Ron Hubbard as a bet. Has anyone heard this and is there any truth to it?
Click to expand...
Not exactly. He has been quoted on numerous occasions as saying something to the effect of "The best way to make a million dollars is to start a religion."
Links:
Start a Religion
What is Scientology
Compared to the incomprehesible amounts of money $cientology deals with daily, Hubbard's use of the term "a million dollars" in retrospect echoes that of the out-of-date Dr. Evil in the first Austin Powers movie.
 
Psi Baba said:
Compared to the incomprehesible amounts of money $cientology deals with daily, Hubbard's use of the term "a million dollars" in retrospect echoes that of the out-of-date Dr. Evil in the first Austin Powers movie.
Click to expand...

so5.jpg


Gotta pay for snazzy uniforms and your own personal navy SOMEHOW...

http://www.xenu.net/archive/so/

Scientology is a deep rabbit hole of madness.
 
Minkster said:
Firstly, my memory is hazy - but don't Scien's believe something along the line that aliens are trying to brainwash people through their psychiatrist workers?
Click to expand...

Some of the most fanatic believe that, yes. Hubbard believed that psychiatrists were mercenaries for the invasion force that would soon come and try to take over mankind (a la Battlefield Earth).


I was told once that Scientology was started by L. Ron Hubbard as a bet. Has anyone heard this and is there any truth to it?
Click to expand...

We'll never know for sure. All we have is vague testimonies of a couple people who claim to have heard it. Either way, it makes for a good story, and knowing Hubbard's braggard character at the time, it's actually plausible.
 
What is great about all this is that I am now seeing negative posts about Scientology everywhere with seemingly every messageboard/forum (not just skeptic ones!) containing at least one anti-scientology thread.

Whilst Tom the nut has been spreading a very dangerous message, it does seem to have some pay-off as the most outrageously bad publicity for the C-of-$ that I can remember.

How long before the powers that be in the "church" attempt to silence him?
 
HarryKeogh said:
APA's response to Tom Cruise's remarks
Click to expand...

“It is irresponsible for Mr. Cruise to use his movie publicity tour to promote his own ideological views and deter people with mental illness from getting the care they need,” said APA President Dr. Steven S. Sharfstein.

:clap:

That's really all I have to say. Thanks for a major cheer up, Harry.
 
There's something about this nutwing going on tv and smugly pronouncing "That's psuedo-science!" that is too freaking bizarre, seeing as at the core of scientology are aliens from outer space.
 
Francois Tremblay said:
We'll never know for sure. All we have is vague testimonies of a couple people who claim to have heard it. Either way, it makes for a good story, and knowing Hubbard's braggard character at the time, it's actually plausible.
Click to expand...
The "bet" form of the rumor is wrong
One form of the rumor is that L. Ron Hubbard made a bar bet with Robert A. Heinlein. This is definitely not true. It's uncharacteristic of Heinlein, and there's no supporting evidence.
Click to expand...
but more than a couple people have heard him make his famous "start a religion" quotation:
To summarize: we have nine witnesses: Neison Himmel, Sam Merwin, Sam Moskowitz, Theodore Sturgeon, Lloyd Arthur Eshbach, Harlan Ellison, and the three unnamed witnesses of Robert Vaughn Young. There is some confusion and doubt about one of them (Sam Moskowitz). Two are reported via Russel Miller: one is reported via Mike Jittlov: one reported in his autobiography; one reported in an affidavit; and one reported to me in person. The reports describe different events, meaning that Hubbard said it perhaps six times, in six different venues - definitely not just once. And the Church's official disclaimer is now reportedly a flat lie.

Conclusion: He definitely said it more than once.
Click to expand...
Non-Scientologist faq on "Start a religion"
 
Thanks Psi,

I kind of thought the bet thing might be a myth but I was hoping. Good info on the links. Sounds like Hubbard was quite a despicable character.
 
Minkster said:
What is great about all this is that I am now seeing negative posts about Scientology everywhere with seemingly every messageboard/forum (not just skeptic ones!) containing at least one anti-scientology thread.
Click to expand...

"There's no such thing as bad publicity"

Whether it's good or bad, the point is that Cruise is helping to deliver the Scientology message to the mainstream.

A very successfull, desirable, actor, with links to successful, desirable actresses, is linked to Scientology...I think the cul...er, 'church', is going to see their membership skyrocket.
 
There's a nice little write-up about Scientology's beef with psychiatry over on Slate. From the article:
Scientology has its roots in a maverick form of psychological counseling that rejects the principles of modern psychiatry. In 1950, L. Ron Hubbard published Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health. (He founded the Church of Scientology a few years later.) The book outlined a philosophy of mental and physical illness and a method for treatment. Hubbard rejected the notion that psychiatry could provide lasting cures for psychological problems and condemned psychiatric treatments he deemed inhumane, like electroconvulsive therapy.

The extent of the feud might stem from the immediate backlash that Hubbard received from mainstream mental health organizations. Dianetics was published in May 1950; by September, the American Psychological Association had advised therapists to avoid it. Not long after, the board of medical examiners in Hubbard's home state of New Jersey pursued legal action against him for practicing phony medicine.
Click to expand...

Kinda makes you laugh a little harder when Cruise starts babbling "That's pseudoscience!" doesn't it? ;)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom