Toddler Dies After Mistaking Gun For Realistic Wii Controller

[Cavemonster]

Just a quick question: do you believe the 14 year old should have had access to the gun or not - in the specific situation as described - and assuming it was described with complete accuracy? And, if your answer is no, how do you justify the deaths of the two children?

You're the one who said that "gun nuts" were all in favor of locking up their firearms to keep them out of reach of children.

But, from the FBI Data, in 2008, there were about 87 total murders in the commission of burglary. Of those, only 47 were by strangers or people of unknown relationship.

That's total murders, including adults and children. 47. That's similar to the number who die from lightning strikes.

Meanwhile, the figure for kids, just kids who die from gun accidents tends to hover around 200+ a year.

It's the homicidal stranger breaking into your house and killing your kids that happens with vanishing rarity. It's a scary picture, and it works well to rally people to a cause, but if we're really interested in preventing deaths, we would be putting all the resources we put into gun lobbying, buying guns and arguing about guns into something that saves a bit more lives.

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2008/offenses/expanded_information/data/shrtable_10.html

 

[GeeMack]

How many gun owners are RESPONSIBLE gun owners?

I am betting the minority.

​

So of the 80 million or so gun owners in the US, over 40 million are irresponsible gun owners. You did just pull that "betting the minority" out of thin air, didn't you? Care to change your bet, or will you tell us where we can find information on those 40+ million gun accidents?

 

[pgwenthold]

A few points:
1) Us "NRA gun nuts" wouldn't argue that the child should be armed. Rather, we argue that young children should be educated to respect guns and not to treat them like toys. Dad's toolbox isn't full of toys and neither is his gun safe. This tragedy occurred, in part, because this child didn't learn that lesson.

HE WAS THREE FRIGGIN YEARS OLD!!!!!

Do you know anything about a three year old? They don't know anything about respecting anything. Not because of bad parenting, but because THEY ARE THREE YEARS OLD.

Nuts is not so far off, I think.

 

[pgwenthold]

My nephew learned about guns at age 3. father is a police officer; he knew that guns were not safe. When asked about any type of gun (toy or real), he simply stated : "Only for papa".

Set it on the table and leave him unsupervised for 20 minutes.

Actually, don't, because it won't stay there.

 

[BenBurch]

GeeMack,

Like I said, being a gun idiot does not mean you have anything bad happen. I mean, that should be obvious.

I would like to invite you over here next New Year's Eve so you can hear all of the weapons fire here from my porch. Last hear I heard several full-auto weapons and quite a number of pistols being fired at midnight. This year I was asleep by midnight...

And remember we are almost by definition not talking law-abiding registered gun owners here, though some of those are dangerous idiots too. And I really do believe that the criminals with guns out-number the honest citizens with guns in many parts of this country. Absolutely that is true in Chicago, for example.

 

[pchams]

One more for Darwin.
Do we want the genes of the gun slacker breeding?
The more accidents of these slack-jaws happening, the better.

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

That seems a bit... heartless. If the parent had shot himself, sure, it would be worth a Darwin award. But I don't think that a 3 year old had the notions or the mental capacity to be responsible for that gun's safety, not to mention that the parents tend not to listen to advice from a 3 year old anyway.

 

[ponderingturtle]

​

So of the 80 million or so gun owners in the US, over 40 million are irresponsible gun owners. You did just pull that "betting the minority" out of thin air, didn't you? Care to change your bet, or will you tell us where we can find information on those 40+ million gun accidents?

So if this accident hadn't shot herself, the adults would be responsible gun owners? The others at the range who the posters kid had to remind of gun safety rules were responsible because no one got shot?

Good to know your definitions are not based on actions but outcomes to determine who is responsible or not.

 

[Cain]

Can we please just cut to the chase: is there a video?

 

[Cavemonster]

Can we please just cut to the chase: is there a video?

You're growing on me Cain.

 

[Cain]

I instantly had regrets posting that, mostly because it would be in poor taste to nominate one's own comment.

 

[r0ast_p0tat0es]

The issue here is surely safe storage of the actual lethal weapon, not how realistic plastic game controllers are.

Surely, right?

I mean... You wouldn't leave rat poison or gasoline or a belt-sander just lying aroung in a room where toddlers frolic, would you? How about a box of used razor blades next to the toilet? A stereo system perched next to the bathtub? A used Coke bottle full of battery acid in the fridge?

 

[Schrodinger's Cat]

HE WAS THREE FRIGGIN YEARS OLD!!!!!

Do you know anything about a three year old? They don't know anything about respecting anything. Not because of bad parenting, but because THEY ARE THREE YEARS OLD.

Nuts is not so far off, I think.

Completely agree. My husband is both in the army and from a rural farming community in the deep south where kids learn to use guns at a pretty young age, and the kids I know there seem to be very responsible and understand gun safety (though this is just my limited personal experience).

But the idea that a THREE year old is capable of understanding these lessons, and that this might be a purely education issue is just silly. Three years old are toddlers. They are practically babies. They'll drink bleach or burn your house down given the opportunity. They are not at an age in which the concept of personal responsibility is something they can grasp and respect. The idea that a three year old has the learning comprehension to understand and appreciate gun safety is just ridiculous.

 

[JWideman]

HE WAS THREE FRIGGIN YEARS OLD!!!!!

Do you know anything about a three year old? They don't know anything about respecting anything. Not because of bad parenting, but because THEY ARE THREE YEARS OLD.

Nuts is not so far off, I think.

Set it on the table and leave him unsupervised for 20 minutes.

Actually, don't, because it won't stay there.

Yes, she was 3 years old. When my two children were each 3 years old, they learned to not 1) stick metal things in electric outlets 2) run across the street 3) play with the tools that we kept under the sink. 3 year olds are old enough to learn. This is the age at which they typically start potty training. At this age, they've already learned to say "no". This child had learned to play this game. So, yes, this child could have been taught a healthy respect for guns.
HOWEVER, any lessons were undone by having a toy gun that looked just like the real one they also had.
Finally, I don't think anyone has said that kitchen tables are ideal storage places for loaded weapons. In fact, I think I said the opposite. We can both agree that - lesson or not - that's careless. Just like I didn't leave my tools all over the table and I didn't let my kids run around outside unsupervised. The lesson is part of parenting, not a substitute for it.

BTW the way, the following demonstration is pretty good for teaching young kids:
(Naturally, hearing protection, second adult to stay with the child, etc.)
1) Take them to a shooting range.
2) Place a milk jug full of water at the target area.
3) With the child watching, shoot the jug.
It's an impressive demonstration that doesn't traumatize the child and it gets the point across: guns destroy the things they are pointed at.

 

[Stout]

HE WAS THREE FRIGGIN YEARS OLD!!!!!

Do you know anything about a three year old? They don't know anything about respecting anything. Not because of bad parenting, but because THEY ARE THREE YEARS OLD.

Nuts is not so far off, I think.

I fully agree here

The gun safe idea is a bit of a red herring here as this was a self defense weapon and the last place you want your firearm is inconveniently locked up in a gun safe when the bad guys come a knockin'

Dad was an idiot, plain and simple. the child can in no way be held accountable for what happened.

Does the NRA suggest any solutions to storing loaded firearms within easy reach. yet not accessible to a child. such as a special shelf high up on the wall, Like where I keep my keys out of reach of my three year old ?

 

[Rasmus]

A few points:
1) Us "NRA gun nuts" wouldn't argue that the child should be armed. Rather, we argue that young children should be educated to respect guns and not to treat them like toys. Dad's toolbox isn't full of toys and neither is his gun safe. This tragedy occurred, in part, because this child didn't learn that lesson.

Allow me to add one more voice to the chjorus of HE WAS JUST THREE YEARS OLD!

Yes, you can teach things to three year olds, but you cannot rely on their understanding them. Yes, the tragedy occurred, in part, because this child didn't learn that lesson. Much like if a brick falls on my head and kills me, it will in part be due to gravity. But if you want to avoid bricks falling on people's head the right way of doing that will not have anything to do with adjusting gravitational parameters.

2) A second reason this happened is because the gun's owner is irresponsible.

No, itsS the ONLY reason. Gravity is not the reason that the brick fall on my head to kill me in any meaningful or relevant way.

Leaving your loaded weapon on the kitchen table and FORGETTING it?!? Owning firearms comes with certain responsibilities, and not leaving them just lying around is certainly one of them. Loaded, unloaded, with children around, or without - you just don't do it.

Exactly.

3) If you own real guns, why would you have a realistic toy gun to play games with?!? That's asking for trouble, and undermining the lesson as mentioned in #1.

I don't see why the realistic looking toy gun should ever be permitted to be problematic. The real gun should never be close to the children anyway, so there would never be an instance where it would be possible to confuse the two.

I remember I had a toy hammer as a child. I am not so certain about a toy power drill, but I know they exist. And it's not a problem. Not because three year olds understand that hammers and power drills are very dangerous; not because the toys looks significantly different than the real thing but because the real thing is simply kept out of reach of the children.

4) Children imitate the behaviors they see. The outcome I would have expected of a child finding a firearm sitting on the table in that home involves a hole in the tv, not the loss of life. I darkly suspect that the story in the article bears little resemblance to the actual event.

Right. Because every three year old child will be able to safely fire a shot at the nearest wall or TV, but it is utterly inconceivable that they would - accidentally or intentionally - fire a shot at anything else.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Yes, she was 3 years old. When my two children were each 3 years old, they learned to not 1) stick metal things in electric outlets 2) run across the street 3) play with the tools that we kept under the sink. 3 year olds are old enough to learn. This is the age at which they typically start potty training. At this age, they've already learned to say "no". This child had learned to play this game. So, yes, this child could have been taught a healthy respect for guns.

It is enough to teach them sure, but it is not enough to trust them unsupervised.

 

[One Eyed Jack]

Some of the responses here are just amazing and obviously based in personal bias towards gun control and video games.

The simple heart of this story is that the child was 3 years old and the parent did not properly secure his fire arm. This child could have just as easily killed themselves with a bottle of poison, a kitchen knife, a plastic bag, or a tub of bath water.

It's about parental responsibility.

 

[GeeMack]

Like I said, being a gun idiot does not mean you have anything bad happen. I mean, that should be obvious.

Indeed.

I would like to invite you over here next New Year's Eve so you can hear all of the weapons fire here from my porch. Last hear I heard several full-auto weapons and quite a number of pistols being fired at midnight. This year I was asleep by midnight...

Thanks for the anecdote. Lots of popping sounds and small explosions going on around here on New Year's Eve, too. I can buy blank cartriges for my .38 at the sporting goods store. They sound a lot like real bullets being fired. It may even be that shooting blanks from a real pistol is legal in some places where lighting firecrackers isn't.

And remember we are almost by definition not talking law-abiding registered gun owners here, though some of those are dangerous idiots too. And I really do believe that the criminals with guns out-number the honest citizens with guns in many parts of this country.

There are people who believe various gods exist, UFOs equal aliens, ESP exists, and bigfoot roams the woods of North America. If you look around these forums you'll find there's a crackpot who believes the Sun has a solid iron surface and another nut who believes she can see kidneys inside of people using magical x-ray vision. So much for beliefs, eh?

Absolutely that is true in Chicago, for example.

With relatively few exceptions, the simple act of owning a handgun in Chicago makes one a criminal. So yes, when it comes to committing crimes, criminals outnumber non-criminals.

 

[Drudgewire]

It may even be that shooting blanks from a real pistol is legal in some places where lighting firecrackers isn't.

And maybe not without good reason. I consider myself a very responsible gun owner... and once started a fire in three yards when we lit one of those "only legal in the south" ariel cannons and forgot to take the plastic off.

Not that I'm saying fireworks should be illegal... because they're freakin' awesome.