Today's Mass Shooting

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It looks clear he is talking about the person rather than any specific content.

It also looks, to me, like he's referring to "broadcasting" rather than just speaking. That would imply to me he's referring to giving Jones a megaphone for his nonsense, rather than Jones just screaming CT's at his nieces and nephews while they search for Easter eggs.
 
You mean like the SCOTUS has done in literally every first amendment case brought before them for the entire history of our country? Seems to have worked pretty well so far. I get ya though, scary government boogeyman and all.

Sort of.

But SCOTUS has, quite correctly, erred on the side of free speech whenever possible. There are lots of cases and precedents and such, but I think what it comes down to right now is that the attempt to stifle the speech has to pass the strict scrutiny test, which is that there is a compelling interest to stifle the speech, that the action of stifling the speech serves that compelling interest, and that no lesser action is available that would also serve that compelling interest.

I think you would have real difficulty arguing before SCOTUS about Alex Jones on points 2 and 3.

When it comes to point 1, even the existence of a "compelling interest" might be difficult. Obviously, safety of citizenry is a compelling interest, but not in general terms. You would have to establish that the speech being stifled actually posed a threat to the safety of the citizenry. That's where the "clear and present danger" test comes in.

Technically, that, specific, test, is not in current Supreme Court precedent, I believe, but I don't know if there is anything specific that took its place. I know that you would have to do better than "Somebody hearing that might decide to perform a violent act." If there is a specific incitement to violence, you could get past the first leg of the strict scrutiny test, but simply a provocative statement that might get someone so mad that they might take it on themselves to commit violence isn't going to cut it.

And, I might add, that's a good thing.




Now change the "something" to "shooting up a pizza parlor", and "causing death threats on the lives of the families of slaughtered children" and the "someday" to, "it's already happened in the past", and we seem to be getting somewhere.

So, if I rail against Mexicans, someone might shoot up a pizza parlor? And if it happened in the past, it can't be "present" now can it?

In the actual, specific, case of Pizzagate, there might be a case, because it involved specific allegations about specific people, and created a false sense of belief that there was imminent danger that would justify violent action. I think a case can be made there.

In the general case, you are dealing with possible chains of events that someone might do something, possibly something similar to what someone else did in the past when some different person said something analogous. I think you would have to be able to make a specific link, and that would be hard to get past the strict scrutiny test. And, once again, that's good. It ought to be difficult to restrict speech. The burden of proof ought to be on the one who wishes to restrict the speech.

As for "caused death threats" in other cases, that's not enough. There were death threats to the Covington Catholic kids after false statements were published about them in WaPo and NYT. Should we throw the editors in jail? I'm sure Mr. Trump would be happy to oblige, and that's the point.
 
And, I might add, that's a good thing.

No, it's not. That being said, that entire paragraph was nothing new, or anything that hasn't been said a thousand times before. I know how things are now, and I know what it takes to get past it. You asked me what things should be, not what they are.

So, if I rail against Mexicans, someone might shoot up a pizza parlor? And if it happened in the past, it can't be "present" now can it?

What are you talking about? Jones specifically called out a pizza parlor by name. God I'm sick of everything needing to be a hypothetical, or some random version of a story that exists in some fictitious, alternate universe.

Everything that happened in the past, also happened in the present. It's already come to fruition.

In the actual, specific, case of Pizzagate, there might be a case, because it involved specific allegations about specific people, and created a false sense of belief that there was imminent danger that would justify violent action. I think a case can be made there.

Ok.

In the general case, you are dealing with possible chains of events that someone might do something, possibly something similar to what someone else did in the past when some different person said something analogous. I think you would have to be able to make a specific link, and that would be hard to get past the strict scrutiny test. And, once again, that's good. It ought to be difficult to restrict speech. The burden of proof ought to be on the one who wishes to restrict the speech.

As for "caused death threats" in other cases, that's not enough. There were death threats to the Covington Catholic kids after false statements were published about them in WaPo and NYT. Should we throw the editors in jail? I'm sure Mr. Trump would be happy to oblige, and that's the point.

Ok, so we basically went through this whole thing for you to say exactly what I said you were going to say in the beginning? Fun stuff.

Thanks for the fun.
 
That's the one champ!

Mexicanians and their NRA and second amendment! That's why their murder rate is 25 per 100,000. Don't they know it's the current year!?!

At least 26 people were killed when suspected gang members burst into a Mexican bar, blocked all the exits and then set the building on fire.

This has nothing to do with gun violence, as guns were not used.
 
I'm still wondering what the NRA and second amendment have to do with gang-related murders in Chicago.

For one thing, guns are used in the gang-related murders in Chicago. Those guns were bought and sold via mechanisms established and protected by the NRA through their second amendment advocacy.
 
This has nothing to do with gun violence, as guns were not used.
Not quite true:
Survivors said gunmen sprayed bullets as they descended on the bar, the Caballo Blanco (White Horse), then blocked the exits and set the club alight.
https://www.france24.com/en/20190828-dozens-killed-attack-night-club-mexico-veracruz-caballo-blanco

Not to say it's the same as what we are talking about here as this appears to be an organized crime/gang war type of hit. But still, guns were used.
 
For one thing, guns are used in the gang-related murders in Chicago. Those guns were bought and sold via mechanisms established and protected by the NRA through their second amendment advocacy.

Or maybe it is the same thing.
 
Not quite true:

https://www.france24.com/en/20190828-dozens-killed-attack-night-club-mexico-veracruz-caballo-blanco

Not to say it's the same as what we are talking about here as this appears to be an organized crime/gang war type of hit. But still, guns were used.

And those guns probably were smuggled into Mexico from the U.S.

Overlooked in U.S.-Mexico talks: Guns illegally crossing the border

Data show that 70% of guns used in violent crimes in Mexico came from the U.S.



The flow of guns from the U.S. to Mexico is getting lost in the border debate

A report from the Center of American Progress found that the United States was the primary source of weapons used in crime in Mexico and Canada. Other countries in Central America can also trace a large proportion of guns seized in crimes to the United States. For example, the report found that from 2014 to 2016, 49 percent of crime guns seized in El Salvador were originally purchased in the U.S. In Honduras, 45 percent of guns recovered in crime scenes were traced to the United States as well.


Here's the report cited in the NPR article:

Beyond Our Borders

According to data from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), of the 106,001 guns recovered by law enforcement as part of a criminal investigation in Mexico from 2011 to 2016 and submitted for tracing, 70 percent were originally purchased from a licensed gun dealer in the United States.6 These U.S.-linked guns likely represent only a fraction of the total number of guns that cross the southern border, as they only account for those guns that were both recovered by law enforcement during a criminal investigation and submitted to ATF for tracing.7 Other estimates suggest that close to 213,000 firearms are smuggled across the U.S.-Mexico border each year.8 According to the U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO), nearly half of the U.S.-sourced guns recovered in Mexico are long guns, which include high-caliber semi-automatic rifles, such as AK and AR variants.9 This is a concern for Mexican law enforcement officials, who have reported that assault rifles have become the weapons of choice for Mexican drug trafficking organizations, in part because they can easily be converted into fully automatic rifles.10 The GAO also reports that, from 2009 to 2014, the majority of the crime guns recovered in Mexico that were originally purchased in the United States came from three southern border states: 41 percent from Texas, 19 percent from California, and 15 percent from Arizona.11

So pretty relevant to the U.S. gun debate, just not in they way that Baylor was implying. Our American drug habit and gun fetish are having profoundly bad impacts on Mexico.
 
I'm sure what arthwollipot means is permanently prevented from broadcasting the stuff that (arthwollipot believes) is dangerous that he is broadcasting now and in the past. If Alex Jones wanted to turn over a fresh leaf and decided to broadcast a series exploring the USA railway system I am sure arthwollipot does not think Jones should be prevented from doing so.

Technically yes, that's true, but I believe that he is psychologically incapable of doing that. So in effect it would be a complete prohibition from broadcasting.

Of course, I'm not naive enough to think that there's any realistic chance of this actually happening. But a guy can dream.
 
Two active shooters in vehicles near Odessa, Texas. They are shooting people as they drive around. At least 2 dead and 30 injured. Police have been shot. Not sure what is confirmed.
 
Was there only one shooter? Reports describe a shooter in a pickup truck and another shooter in a hijacked postal delivery van.
 
Two active shooters in vehicles near Odessa, Texas. They are shooting people as they drive around. At least 2 dead and 30 injured. Police have been shot. Not sure what is confirmed.

White male was the culprit. I’m going to go out on a limb and say probably white supremacist.

It looks like these guys tend to be lone shooters, whereas if there are multiple shooters it points to either Islamic terrorism or potentially gang-related violence.
 
Here's a comment I saw on a news article about this Odessa shooting:

"If guns aren't the problem and people are the problem... why allow the problem to have guns?"
 
White male was the culprit. I’m going to go out on a limb and say probably white supremacist.

It looks like these guys tend to be lone shooters, whereas if there are multiple shooters it points to either Islamic terrorism or potentially gang-related violence.
It's possible that the guy was a white supremacist but the incident doesn't really seem like a white supremacy mass shooting.

It started with a traffic stop for failing to use a turn signal. Then he starts shooting at the cop(s) who pulled him over. He takes off driving and indiscriminately begins shooting at random people including other motorists.
 
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