Today's Mass Shooting

[Dr. Keith]

From what I have read, the a large proportion are gang related. That the point being made by many here who objected to legislation that would affect the generally law abiding. They do not cause much of the problem and there is already legislation that allows the police to get guns of criminals and gang members. They just need to start properly enforcing it and the supply needs to be dried up.

I then realised that was going to be pretty much impossible to achieve, so the USA has to just develop coping strategies.

You could blame gangs, which would cover most gun violence, maybe even 60 or 70%. Or you could blame men, which would cover more than 95% of mass shootings.

As a man I find this very disturbing. This is an American problem, but it is a problem caused almost entirely by one half of America, American men.

Should it be much harder for men to buy guns in America?

 

[Dr.Sid]

Does someone track if the shooting was done by legally owned gun ?

 

[Steve]

Does someone track if the shooting was done by legally owned gun ?

Guns don't shoot people........( we all know the drill )

 

[Dr. Keith]

Does someone track if the shooting was done by legally owned gun ?

One problem with guns being so easily obtained is that there is very little difference in price between a legally owned gun and an illegally owned gun.

Imagine it was illegal for a diabetic in your country to buy, own, or possess a can of soda. But there was no real enforcement except at the cash register. So, if your brother was diabetic he could come over to your house and drink your legally owned soda without you facing any real consequences. In fact, he could buy soda from friends who didn't even know he was a diabetic without breaking any law.

At that point, it doesn't really matter if the sodas is legally owned or not, they are just ubiquitous.

 

[luchog]

From what I have read, the a large proportion are gang related. That the point being made by many here who objected to legislation that would affect the generally law abiding. They do not cause much of the problem and there is already legislation that allows the police to get guns of criminals and gang members. They just need to start properly enforcing it and the supply needs to be dried up.

Except that, thanks to the NRA and their lackeys in Congress, those laws are almost toothless, and do very little to prevent gangs from acquiring firearms of all sorts.

Straw purchases in states with lax background check and reporting requirements account for a huge percentage of otherwise legal firearms ending up in the hands of gang members and other criminals. Stolen weapons account for a smaller but still very large percentage. Given the sheer number of legally-possessed firearms in this country, it's impossible to keep criminals from obtaining firearms. In some states, it's easier to obtain guns illegally than it is to purchase them through legal means.

 

[Dr.Sid]

One problem with guns being so easily obtained is that there is very little difference in price between a legally owned gun and an illegally owned gun.

Imagine it was illegal for a diabetic in your country to buy, own, or possess a can of soda. But there was no real enforcement except at the cash register. So, if your brother was diabetic he could come over to your house and drink your legally owned soda without you facing any real consequences. In fact, he could buy soda from friends who didn't even know he was a diabetic without breaking any law.

At that point, it doesn't really matter if the sodas is legally owned or not, they are just ubiquitous.

Sure .. still there are important differences. If most of the crime is done with legally held (obtained) weapons, it means you can affect it somehow with rules of how to obtain them. Not entirelly, sure.
If most is illegal, but obtained legally and then transferred, you should prevent the transfer in the first place. For example where I live the guns are registered to the person, and you are responsible for the gun, and you must present it for inspection at any time. And if your gun gets stolen, it's on you.
I think the registration could be middle ground. But if the crime is dont using completely legal guns, registration would change nothing.

 

[arthwollipot]

The Gun Violence Archive has details on shooting incidents in the United States.

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting

I've been told that that is a partisan site with an anti-gun agenda, and is therefore not to be believed. rolleyes

 

[Dr. Keith]

Sure .. still there are important differences. If most of the crime is done with legally held (obtained) weapons, it means you can affect it somehow with rules of how to obtain them. Not entirelly, sure.
If most is illegal, but obtained legally and then transferred, you should prevent the transfer in the first place. For example where I live the guns are registered to the person, and you are responsible for the gun, and you must present it for inspection at any time. And if your gun gets stolen, it's on you.
I think the registration could be middle ground. But if the crime is dont using completely legal guns, registration would change nothing.

To the NRA "registration" is synonymous with "ban". So, while in your country the distinction is interesting, it is a bit of a non-starter, locally.

Also, they are not big fans of requiring much from person to person sales. That one boggles me a bit.

 

[Norman Alexander]

I've been told that that is a partisan site with an anti-gun agenda, and is therefore not to be believed. rolleyes

That is, when the facts contradict your operative fairy-tale, then the facts are wrong.

*SIGH*

 

[autumn1971]

To the NRA "registration" is synonymous with "ban". So, while in your country the distinction is interesting, it is a bit of a non-starter, locally.

Also, they are not big fans of requiring much from person to person sales. That one boggles me a bit.

Yup, this is where the US is messed up. I could buy a rifle, handgun, or shotgun in a couple of hours of asking friends. There would be no background check or even reasonable questions about mental stability.

Much easier than going to a responsible dealer and getting one.

 

[Dr. Keith]

Yup, this is where the US is messed up. I could buy a rifle, handgun, or shotgun in a couple of hours of asking friends. There would be no background check or even reasonable questions about mental stability.

Much easier than going to a responsible dealer and getting one.

My brother has more guns than shoes. He is constantly buying and selling guns. I don't think he has bought anything from a gun shop or licensed dealer in a decade or more.

 

[Nessie]

You could blame gangs, which would cover most gun violence, maybe even 60 or 70%. Or you could blame men, which would cover more than 95% of mass shootings.

As a man I find this very disturbing. This is an American problem, but it is a problem caused almost entirely by one half of America, American men.

Should it be much harder for men to buy guns in America?

It should be much harder for those unsuitable to have a gun, to be able to get one, by any means. The reason why no where else has the USA's problem is that everywhere else criminals, gangs, etc find it harder to get guns.

 

[Nessie]

Yup, this is where the US is messed up. I could buy a rifle, handgun, or shotgun in a couple of hours of asking friends. There would be no background check or even reasonable questions about mental stability.

Much easier than going to a responsible dealer and getting one.

I do think that is the main issue, ease of access for everyone. The USA cannot control its gun problem because there are so many.

There is now the situation where for example, law abiding citizens in Texas with a CCW permit are heavily controlled, but the gangs and criminals of Texas can easily get a gun with no controls.

 

[Dr. Keith]

I do think that is the main issue, ease of access for everyone. The USA cannot control its gun problem because there are so many.

There is now the situation where for example, law abiding citizens in Texas with a CCW permit are heavily controlled, but the gangs and criminals of Texas can easily get a gun with no controls.

Not really. It is a one day class and you don't even have to show you learned much. Then, you don't have to tell them if you have guns or how many or what type. And there are no additional restrictions on CC permit holders. At most, I'd say law abiding citizens may chose to sign up for more freedoms, but I would not say the are heavily controlled for having made that choice.

It is easy for anyone to get a gun in Texas. And most transfers gang members and criminals are perfectly legal from the sellers point of view unless the seller is a licensed dealer or knows that the person they are selling to is not allowed to have a gun. This is what is inaccurately referred to as the "gun-show loophole." It is so much bigger than any gun show.

 

[Nessie]

Not really. It is a one day class and you don't even have to show you learned much. Then, you don't have to tell them if you have guns or how many or what type. And there are no additional restrictions on CC permit holders. At most, I'd say law abiding citizens may chose to sign up for more freedoms, but I would not say the are heavily controlled for having made that choice.

It is easy for anyone to get a gun in Texas. And most transfers gang members and criminals are perfectly legal from the sellers point of view unless the seller is a licensed dealer or knows that the person they are selling to is not allowed to have a gun. This is what is inaccurately referred to as the "gun-show loophole." It is so much bigger than any gun show.

The list of requirements to show that the applicant is a suitable person includes stuff that is not even needed in the UK, such as information about debt. Then the UK does not even require a one day class.

 

[ponderingturtle]

The list of requirements to show that the applicant is a suitable person includes stuff that is not even needed in the UK, such as information about debt. Then the UK does not even require a one day class.

I didn't think you gave out concealed carry permits that easily.

Simply owning depending on the state is just buy the gun from someone. This is a crime if you are not legally allowed to own it but there isn't any kind of checking. The extra steps there were for a concealed carry permit.

 

[Nessie]

I didn't think you gave out concealed carry permits that easily.

Simply owning depending on the state is just buy the gun from someone. This is a crime if you are not legally allowed to own it but there isn't any kind of checking. The extra steps there were for a concealed carry permit.

I was just saying that to get a UK firearms licence is about as hard for a law abiding Brit as it is for a law abiding Texan to get a CCW. They are roughly equivalent.

 

[autumn1971]

I was just saying that to get a UK firearms licence is about as hard for a law abiding Brit as it is for a law abiding Texan to get a CCW. They are roughly equivalent.

The difference is after one acquired the license. In the US one can lose the right to own a firearm only in theory. Enforcement is entirely of the “you promise you don’t have any guns? Okay then” variety.

 

[a_unique_person]

Five dead in Texas shooting. No suspects so a family mass shooting and suicide probably.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/5-found-dead-at-texas-home-in-apparent-shooting-sheriff-says

 

[Kestrel]

The difference is after one acquired the license. In the US one can lose the right to own a firearm only in theory. Enforcement is entirely of the “you promise you don’t have any guns? Okay then” variety.

It does happen on occasion. A friend told me about the police visiting his brother in law on an unrelated matter. The officers knew the brother in law had a felony record and noticed a large gun safe in his living room. They came back with a warrant to search the safe and discovered his gun collection.

When he acquired the guns it was perfectly legal in my state for a private party to sell a firearm to a stranger with no questions asked and no record of the sale. The buyer may have been committing a crime but the seller was not.

It is still that way in most states. Search for local private parties on Armslist selling guns you want. Meet somewhere and pay cash for the gun. Or go to a gun show and look for the private sellers. Pay cash to avoid creating a paper trail.