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Time Travel Delusions and Other Junk Science

Please back up your claim that "time" is a force. The word "time" is already taken. If you are claiming there is a "force" in the universe that speeds up and slows down all movement (time) for everything, that's an extraordinary claim, which requires extraordinary proof, and requires a word that is not already in existence with a different definition.

Bad syntax is how it all boils down. Such a force may exist, but it isn't "time". That's the problem with people who use language and words to interchangeably mean whatever they wish to assign to it, rather than the actual, literal definition.

Most people, when using the word "time", are referring to the constant and simultaneous movement of all matter, and seem to think it is like a river that "flows". This comes from the brain's ability to record memories and remember things that have already occurred (past) and project things that may occur (future) while experiencing things occurring currently (present). There is a continuum of movement (time) but it is made up only of the movements of matter through the three dimensions of space. There is clearly a force causing this movement, (ether), but the force and the movement are two different things, as are the measurement of the movement and its speed. It is important to separate them all for the sake of clarity, otherwise, people begin believing things that simply aren't true. They combine all of the concepts together into a belief system that makes no room for understanding each element of the movement, speed, velocity, space, distance, longevity, etc.

It annoys people to do that, because it makes the mathematical aspects much more complicated, but that is the only way to understand physics with any degree of accuracy.

To those who can't be bothered with accuracy, it's fine to call time a dimension if that's your preference, but it isn't accurate according to the parts of Einstein's theory of relativity that are not in conflict with one another.
 
Please learn to use the quote function, Angie. It would be nice to know who "you" is when you're busy being wrong.
 
Actually, linear timelines may very well be an illusion experienced by the human brain. Ever heard of theory of nonlocality?
 
You are all wasting your time with this AngieMax. Look at the link I provided. AngieMax is a hardcore crackpot!

LINK
 
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It sounds like many of you believe in "time travel", based on the fact that you imagine time to be a "dimension" one can "travel through". Simply put, traveling back in time (which even Dr. Michio Kaku acknowledges is not possible according to the math) would require every sub-atomic particle in the universe to revert back to its previous location at whatever "point" in the "timeline" at which one wishes to return. That is highly unlikely regardless of whether one climbs into a spaceship and manages to travel faster than the speed of light, or fly around the earth backwards ala "Superman", or get into a particle accelerator machine and push some buttons... thinking outside of the numbers using logic instead of trying to prove schoolboy fantasies with misunderstood scientific concepts could prevent so much wasted effort, as well as funding, which would be better used toward development of usable technologies.
 
It sounds like many of you believe in "time travel", based on the fact that you imagine time to be a "dimension" one can "travel through".
kayak.png
 
So, the exact same post on my blog that I posted here proves I am a crackpot? I really have no use for childish name-calling. Personal attacks do nothing to advance intelligent discussion. The fact that such behavior is tolerated here leads me to believe this is an elitist "club" here at JREF more than a place for open discussion among intelligent adults.
 
Let me get this straight:
1. Time does not exist per se? It is merely an artifactual because we have clocks that say that a change occurred in so many seconds?
2. Time does not exist without movement? So, in a given closed system, if something does not move relative to something else, time does not exist? (How do you know it hasn't moved if time does not exist would be a more valid question.)

I'm not skilled in General Relativity but I've done the math for Special Relativity. The theory is jaw-droppinbly brilliant and, as all scientific theories, is supported by all relevant findings to date. In that theory, time is a variable and its dilation and contraction in certain systems can be calculated with great precision. Moreover, these calculations have proven accurate in observed systems, even those as "slow" and nearby as man-made satellites. This could not be done if time did not exist but was, as you incorrectly put it, only there because a clock says it is.

Look up Special Relativity, do the math and then tell us what is wrong. Name the scientists that you refer to in the OP who doubt the theories of relativity.

Your belief that time does not exist is tragically wrong. I cannot achieve absolute zero by unplugging a clock.
 
Love the cartoon - it is a great way of expressing what I try to remind people who misunderstand the word "time" on a regular basis. "Time travel" in the minds of people who fantasize about going back in time is literally what you are doing at every moment, even while sitting still, since the earth is rotating on its axis whether YOU are moving or not. Again, the key is MOVEMENT. Not some "dimension". We move through the three dimensions constantly and simultaneously with everything else. Time merely expresses the speed and distance with which we move. That is how a measuring system works, not a dimension.
 
For the love of Sagan, please use the quote function, Angie. You appear to be ranting at me for calling you a crackpot. This is clearly not the case, so please use the quote function if you're not responding to the post immediately before yours.
 
I never said time doesn't exist. I said time is a measuring system and not a dimension with coordinates, but what MEASURES a dimension with coordinates. HUGE difference.

A clock measures movement and speed of movement. A clock is not time, and a clock neither creates nor causes anything. It merely represents movement. Period.

Misquoting me tells me that you are not reading or understanding the basic scientific concepts that Einstein proposed, which I happen to agree with, at least with the aspects that do not contradict one another.
 
You're right about that!

No matter how time is perceived, AngieMax has demonstrated that time is something that can be WASTED. ;)

You are correct. Clearly, it was a waste of time to attempt an intelligent discussion here. Mostly what I see is name-calling, bullying, insults, and otherwise childish behavior. How very disappointing and not at all what I expected from an organization for which I have been so fond of for many years.

As a SkepChic, I should have had more sense than to attempt to argue with those who display such childish behavior. Alas, I am not perfect, nor do I claim to be as many of you here do. My bad for possessing the optimism and lack of cynicism required in order to hope for mature behavior from this community.
 
I never said time doesn't exist. I said time is a measuring system and not a dimension with coordinates, but what MEASURES a dimension with coordinates. HUGE difference.

Is measuring weight measuring movement ? Because I certainly can measure time with measuring a weight. Not very precisely, but yes I can. Hint : it involve innordinate quantity of short lived isotope, and weight.

Frankly you make the same classical error orf thinking that time is an artifact of human, as opposed to a true dimension like space.

*shrug*. I am out of this thread. I would rather waste my time killing some orcs or blood elf in WOW.
 
Angie, I've seen many people patiently trying to explain to you that you are under some misconceptions. You're basically trapped in an argument over semantics. Nobody here has even attempted to argue that time travel to the past is possible. To imply otherwise seems like a straw man argument to me. You seem to think you've made some kind of "ah-ha" realization, but you haven't. Time is the passage of time, and it turns out this can function as a force in the way we describe the universe. The issue you have with what word we are using is a problem that only exists in your mind.

Nobody claimed to be perfect either, another straw man tactic. Calm down and consider your opposition's points, you seem to have expected a lot of people would agree with you, or you were looking for an argument. It was only after you ignored the points being made to you and began repeating your premise that you began to receive the treatment you're complaining about.
 
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So, the exact same post on my blog that I posted here proves I am a crackpot? I really have no use for childish name-calling. Personal attacks do nothing to advance intelligent discussion. The fact that such behavior is tolerated here leads me to believe this is an elitist "club" here at JREF more than a place for open discussion among intelligent adults.

Your ignorance of relativity and its implications regarding time dilation is not in itself a cause for ridicule. However, your refusal to try to learn and your lack of respect those who have spent decades studying this subject rules you out as being capable of intelligent discussion. Most condemning is your strident insistence that you are correct while maintaining your ignorance -- which makes you a crackpot! Congratulations, you have just joined all the other crackpots on my "ignore" list!
 
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Funny, I have worked in think tanks for almost two decades, thinking is what I do for a living, and sharing that information via internet radio (AND FM radio as I worked in broadcasting 21 years ago) is what I enjoy most about it. I have not ignored anyone's arguments. I have responded to them as much as time allows, but I am not responding to those arguments that are irrelevant to the topic I presented. Some of the comments made even shored up my argument, because so many people are mentally lazy and do not realize the meaning behind what they are saying!

Mindlessly memorizing and reciting bits of science articles without understanding the SEMANTICS does NOT advance science. Putting someone down for attempting to bring clarity to an issue by being ACCURATE (something we scientists and research analysts/think tankers value in the EXTREME) shows a complete disrespect for science.

I don't see any "patiently trying to explain" anything to me. All I see are hostile statements and condescending claims that do not address the point I posted. I was not looking for anyone to "agree" with me or "argue" either way. I was looking for someone who had an appreciation for clarity in language and communication and who could appreciate the important role they play in science.

I can't begin to tell you how many hours we wasted in think tanks because a brilliant physicist couldn't express himself well and constantly used one word to mean several different things.

Thanks anyway. I've learned a lot - though it's more about the people on this forum than about physics.
 

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