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Time to kick Iran

Matteo Martini said:
Let alone the fact that Iran is not developing nuclear weapons, would you tell me with which right the US, the country that has one of the largest ( the lasgest? ) arsenal of nukes in the world and the only country in history that used nukes against civilians, has to say to other countries what is right and wrong?
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As I noted earlier, we were first, and we wrote the rules, and then other people signed up. The rest of the world learned on our dime, and on that of our allies, and on Russia's dime, and her allies.

Actually, the rest of the world didn't learn much other than envy.

America and Russia (USSR) played the first round of this game, M.A.D. and in doing so realized jointly that non proliferation was the better idea. They sold that idea to a lot of people. What didn't change was the idea that getting nukes makes someone a member of the important club.

Why India, Russia, China, etc. etc. seem to have no problem with Iran?
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Can you support that embedded statement?

DR
 
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Darth Rotor said:
As I noted earlier, we were first, and we wrote the rules, and then other people signed up. The rest of the world learned on our dime, and on that of our allies, and on Russia's dime, and her allies.

Actually, the rest of the world didn't learn much other than envy.

America and Russia (USSR) played the first round of this game, M.A.D. and in doing so realized jointly that non proliferation was the better idea. They sold that idea to a lot of people. What didn't change was the idea that getting nukes makes someone a member of the important club.
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didn't learn much ??
Would you please address the point I was making?
Who gave the US the authority to decide which country has the right to develop nuclear energy?


Darth Rotor said:
Can you support that embedded statement?

DR
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Read the news..
 
Oliver said:
By the way: No matter if Iran, Afghanistan or Iraq - it's
all about business and maybe also Israel. There is no
War on Terror. That's the lie the stupid Lemmings have
to swallow:



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Apparently, the Bush Administration is doing a damn good job in that*.
* I do not endorse the " stupid Lemmings " comment
 
Matteo Martini said:
Apparently, the Bush Administration is doing a damn good job in that*.
* I do not endorse the " stupid Lemmings " comment
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Since the US Government is knowingly fooling their own people
and many actually still believe them -just like lemmings- why
not actually call it the way it is?

(And I'm fully aware that "Lemmingism" is a general human
behavior, not an exclusively American one).
 
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Policenaut said:
Oliver I think you're in the matrix. One day you need to wake up.
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Wake up to what? That some day Ahmadinejad is ringing at my
door and threatens me with a suitcase-nuke? :D

How many reports from within Iran did you see? ... Exactly. So
don't call me the one living in the Matrix.
 
Matteo Martini said:
didn't learn much ??
Would you please address the point I was making?
Who gave the US the authority to decide which country has the right to develop nuclear energy?
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He addressed your point and answered your question rather completely and succinctly. The fact that you prefer the world to operate in a manner in which it does not detracts not a whit from that answer.
 
Matteo Martini said:
didn't learn much ??
Would you please address the point I was making?
Who gave the US the authority to decide which country has the right to develop nuclear energy?
Click to expand...
YOU really have trouble reading today, eh? I answered the question: we wrote the rules, because we were first. That gave us the right. We were also a leader is setting up the NPT.
Read the news..
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I do, but you apparently don't. In the past two years, European allies of the US and the US have imposed a series of sanctions on Iran. A few months back, the Russians stopped shipping some material to Iran. Yet you claim "they don't have much problem" with Iran's program.

You are quite simply wrong, and no, you did not support your embedded statement.

DR
 
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Oliver said:
(And I'm fully aware that "Lemmingism" is a general human
behavior, not an exclusively American one).
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Including Italians and Germans who supported Nazi-Fascism, Russians who supported Communism, Japanese who supported ( and are supporting ) Hirohito, etc. etc. etc. etc.?
By the way, I think that Bush is better ( less worse ) than all the above.
 
Matteo Martini said:
Including Italians and Germans who supported Nazi-Fascism, Russians who supported Communism, Japanese who supported ( and are supporting ) Hirohito, etc. etc. etc. etc.?
By the way, I think that Bush is better ( less worse ) than all the above.
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Exactly - and I agree with you about Bush. But he got dangerously
close to the worst Italian, German and Japanese Politicians, don't
you think? ... At least I don't remember another US-Politican who
came that close to a dictatorship ...
 
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Darth Rotor said:
YOU really have trouble reading today, eh? I answered the question: we wrote the rules, because we were first. That gave us the right. We were also a leader is setting up the NPT.
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Garrette said:
He addressed your point and answered your question rather completely and succinctly. The fact that you prefer the world to operate in a manner in which it does not detracts not a whit from that answer.
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I do not think that the point " we were the first to develop nukes, so it is OK to keep everybody else from having them " is moral, and I do not think it is gonna work a little bit.
Were I Iranian, hearing you, I would support my country to go nuclear
 
Matteo Martini said:
I do not think that the point " we were the first to develop nukes, so it is OK to keep everybody else from having them " is moral, and I do not think it is gonna work a little bit.
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It worked well enough to get the NPT agreed by most nations. What is your problem with learning the history of the Nuclear Non Proliferation movement? Are you afraid you might come off respecting the American, and Soviet, position on the matter?
Were I Iranian, hearing you, I would support my country to go nuclear
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Fine. See my point above: once you go nuclear, and you aren't an ally, you are a target.

You want that?

Seriously?

DR
 
Darth Rotor said:
It worked well enough to get the NPT agreed by most nations. What is your problem with learning the history of the Nuclear Non Proliferation movement? Are you afraid you might come off respecting the American, and Soviet, position on the matter?
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1) Iran is working under the NPT;
2) In the NPT there is the second pillar who pushes nuclear countries to get disarmed, but nobody is doing it
therefore
3) the NPT will soon lose of any practical value

Darth Rotor said:
Fine. See my point above: once you go nuclear, and you aren't an ally, you are a target.

You want that?

Seriously?

DR
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You are not an ally of who?
This is what is difficult for you to understand.
Apparently, the Islamic world ( 1.3 billion people ) has more problem with the US than with Iran
 
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Oliver said:
Exactly - and I agree with you about Bush. But he got dangerously
close to the worst Italian, German and Japanese Politicians, don't
you think? ...
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I beg to disagree.
There is quite a difference between Bush and Hitler ( and Stalin, and etc. )

Oliver said:
At least I don't remember another US-Politican who
came that close to a dictatorship ...
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I beg to disagree again.
Kissinger and Nixon were worse ( IMHO ).
I do not know that much about Reagan.
 
The NPT is a fairly simple notion. Like any treaty, it is an agreement between parties. The basic idea is that nuclear war is so horrible that nations must repudiate it utterly. The terms of the agreement are:

The non-nuclear nations agree not to pursue nuclear weapons.
The nuclear nations agree to reduce the number of weapons they have, and to not work on new ones.

Needless to say, the US in particular has simply ignored the treaty, just like it ignores the canadian softwood agreement and the various treaties it made with the indian nations. A treaty that any party to it decides to ignore is dead.
 
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