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Time to kick Iran

Well, to sum up all replies so far:

Skeptics: "No, there is no evidence for Iran's plan to build nuclear
weapons or sell nuclear, high-enriched material to others."

Woo's: "Woo, Nuclear Holocaust!!11!eleven!!! Mushroom clouds!!11!!1!!!OMG!11!"

Is there anything else to say about this issue?
 
Oliver said:
Well, to sum up all replies so far:

Skeptics: "No, there is no evidence for Iran's plan to build nuclear
weapons or sell nuclear, high-enriched material to others."

Woo's: "Woo, Nuclear Holocaust!!11!eleven!!! Mushroom clouds!!11!!1!!!OMG!11!"

Is there anything else to say about this issue?
Click to expand...

Please reply to my post. You haven't answered it yet.
 
Oliver said:
I agree that it is fair to say that Ahmadinejad is at least naive
concerning his views about the Holocaust:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,418660,00.html

And it's fair to say that Ahmadinejad isn't very wise in chosing
the right words concerning the removal of a Regime - or even
in quoting them.

Nevertheless: Ahmadinejad doesn't have a violent record, does he?
Click to expand...

You have to careful not to be naive, when you are President of a country.
If you shout " death to Israel ", in front of some thousands of people, Israelis can get offended, to say the least.

Oliver said:
And secondly: Iranians have every right to bash Americans since
they have their fingers onto their land since decades - and you
wouldn't think otherwise if America would topple the Italian Regime
just because they aren't obeying, wrong?
Click to expand...

Italians have not called for " death to France ", so far..
 
Undesired Walrus said:
Please reply to my post. You haven't answered it yet.
Click to expand...


Which question was it? Feel free to ask again since I missed
the one you're eager to get answered.


Matteo Martini said:
You have to careful not to be naive, when you are President of a country.
If you shout " death to Israel ", in front of some thousands of people, Israelis can get offended, to say the least.

Italians have not called for " death to France ", so far..
Click to expand...


While Ahmadinejad - who by the way isn't in charge of the nuclear
program nor the leader of Iran - never personally said: "Death to
Israel", he is all for a regime change in Israel. Which is exactly the
same as someone like Bush calling for a regime-change in Iraq or
Iran. So what's the difference? The wording? :confused:

Is "being offended" an excuse for military interventions now?
 
Oliver said:
While Ahmadinejad - who by the way isn't in charge of the nuclear
program nor the leader of Iran - never personally said: "Death to
Israel", he is all for a regime change in Israel. Which is exactly the
same as someone like Bush calling for a regime-change in Iraq or
Iran. So what's the difference? The wording? :confused:

Is "being offended" an excuse for military interventions now?
Click to expand...

He said:
" they shout Death to Israel "
This is quite a strong thing, said by the President of a country, and that, alone, should put in discussion the right of Iran to pursue full iranium enrichment.
Just my HO
 
Matteo Martini said:
He said:
" they shout Death to Israel "
This is quite a strong thing, said by the President of a country, and that, alone, should put in discussion the right of Iran to pursue full iranium enrichment.
Just my HO
Click to expand...


And I agree that this was a pretty slippery slope for even
mention it. But that's no evidence for Iran's plans to have
nuclear weapons, is it?

Matteo Martini said:
I never advocated a war.
And, I think any military intervention can probably be avoided using sanctions..
Click to expand...


I disagree - sanctions only fuel the fire of distrust towards the
west. After all - Iran has every right to have nuclear energy since
this is what the IAEA is about - and Iran is playing to the rules.

To say that everyone is allowed to have nuclear power but Iran
isn't - is like saying: According to the constitution, White people
have the right to bear arms, blacks don't have the same right.

So to me the whole controversy is about discrimination - not about
facts, logic and international agreements. The Iranians are
playing to the rules. When will the west start to play to the
rules they set up in the first place? :rolleyes:
 
Oliver said:
Which question was it? Feel free to ask again since I missed
the one you're eager to get answered.
Click to expand...

'You are still avoiding my question. Would you defend Bush if he said the above at a DC rally? Would you say he did not say 'I shout 'KILL THE HOMOSEXUALS' but justify it by him saying 'They shout 'KILL THE HOMOSEXUALS!'. Would you defend the crowds free speech?

Would you be calling for his impeachment? I would.'
 
Undesired Walrus said:
'You are still avoiding my question. Would you defend Bush if he said the above at a DC rally? Would you say he did not say 'I shout 'KILL THE HOMOSEXUALS' but justify it by him saying 'They shout 'KILL THE HOMOSEXUALS!'. Would you defend the crowds free speech?

Would you be calling for his impeachment? I would.'
Click to expand...



No, of course I wouldn't defend that. What a weird question.
 
Oliver said:
While Ahmadinejad - who by the way isn't in charge of the nuclear program nor the leader of Iran -
Click to expand...


No one except you has claimed that Ahmadinejad runs Iran on his own, only that he is the outward image and the official spokesperson of the government. What he says is the official government line.

But just out of curiosity, do tell us who the "leader of Iran" is, and who is "in charge of the nuclear program."


Oliver said:
never personally said: "Death to Israel", he is all for a regime change in Israel. Which is exactly the same as someone like Bush calling for a regime-change in Iraq or Iran. So what's the difference? The wording? :confused:
Click to expand...


Of course he did. You don't "quote" something in a context like that unless you agree with it. Neither do you have banners in your military parades that read "Death to America!" and "Death to Israel!" unless it's what you actually mean.

And the difference is that he doesn't want a "regime change." The "regime" he speaks of is the State of Israel itself, not a particular Israeli government. He wants the state abolished and the people moved elsewhere (Europe, Alaska, or as second-rate citizens in a muslim state.)

Also, why didn't you answer my previous comments on free speech and your opinion on the whole thing? I know you read the posts, so don't respond with "repeat the question."
 
Oliver said:
While Ahmadinejad - who by the way isn't in charge of the nuclear
program nor the leader of Iran - never personally said: "Death to
Israel", he is all for a regime change in Israel. Which is exactly the
same as someone like Bush calling for a regime-change in Iraq or
Iran.
Click to expand...

I can always depend upon you for cheap moral relativism. First off, the words used aren't exactly the relevant issue. Ahmadinejad said that Israel would be erased from the pages of time. That's a euphemism, and it means that Israel would be destroyed. Secondly, calling for "regime change" in a democracy is NOT the same thing as calling for "regime change" in a dictatorship. If you can't understand why they aren't the same, you've sunken further into the morass of authoritarian appologetics than I thought.
 
Pardalis said:


He clearly says "Death to Israel".
Click to expand...


No, he's quoting someone else that said "Death to Israel..."
....

........
......................

IRAN_MILITARY.sff_XHS117_20070922060210.jpg


Quotes too, probably.

(They allegedly say "Death to...," and not "Down with..." in Farsi.)
 
Pardalis said:
Where did you take this picture?

I'm not sure they it is real, the light on the signs seem off.
Click to expand...


Well it's from the Associated Press and has accompanied lots of stories on that parade on various news sites, so if it was fake, they've got some explaining to do!

I got it from Yahoo news images, but it's on various other sites like Google's AP feed, etc too.

I see no reason to doubt its authenticity.
 
jsiv said:
Well it's from the Associated Press and has accompanied lots of stories on that parade on various news sites, so if it was fake, they've got some explaining to do!

I got it from Yahoo news images, but it's on various other sites like Google's AP feed, etc too.

I see no reason to doubt its authenticity.
Click to expand...

You're probably right.

The photographer seems to be legitimate: http://www.hasanpix.com/resume.php

Hard to tell anyways, from a low-resolution pic.
 
Undesired Walrus said:
So... why are you defending Mahmoud.A by pointing out he says 'They shout'?
Click to expand...


Because Iran is no warmongerer. And more importantly, they agree
to the rules of the IAEA and therefore: Have the right to build as
many nuclear plants as they like to. :)
 
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