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Time to kick Iran

I don't think the President needs Congressional support to start trouble, merely to sustain it.
 
Oliver said:
Please explain your non-sense, "congressional" statement:

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/U.S._reported_to_mount_covert_operations_in_Iran
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Dear Oliver:
Are you deliberately stupid, or did your mother drop you on your head as a child? That article discusses reconaissance, a bit like scouting and syping, not using force. Do you understand the difference? The US does covert ops in a lot of places. You have a problem with that? Tough. I note that Hersch seems to have got some things right, and some wrong.

the article said:
The Pentagon has strongly criticised the report, though without explicitly denying the existence of covert operations in Iran. According to the Pentagon spokesman "Mr. Hersh's article is so riddled with errors of fundamental fact that the credibility of his entire piece is destroyed."

He went on to state: "Mr. Hersh's source(s) feed him with rumor, innuendo, and assertions about meetings that never happened, programs that do not exist, and statements by officials that were never made."
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I note that Hirsch makes assertions.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4180087.stm

His evidence is scanty, but he may have a valid source. You, for some reason, seem to want to claim that this spying constitutes "force." Here's a little secret, Oliver. The US also used to do reconnaisance into Soviet Union during the cold war. Were Russian spies in the US using force against the US?

They didn't use force.

The sound you hear, if you ever get your head out, will be a loud "pop," right before you see daylight, rather than a lot of dark red and brown.

One such consultant is quoted as saying that the civilians in the Pentagon wanted to go into Iran and destroy as much of the military infrastructure as possible.
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Not a surprise. Oliver, do you understand the difference between wanting a pony and riding a pony?

DR
 
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quixotecoyote said:
I don't think the President needs Congressional support to start trouble, merely to sustain it.
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Yes, and the whole matter of the War Powers act and the latitude (the sixty day rule) of Executive action is a non trivial matter.

DR
 
Darth Rotor said:
His evidence is scanty, but he may have a valid source. You, for some reason, claim that this spying constitutes "force."

Here's a little secret, Oliver. The US also used to do reconnaisance into Soviet Union during the cold war.

The didn't use force.

DR
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You know exactly what I'm talking about:
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/US_Interventions_WBlumZ.html

You know that the US bombed Iraq for years before the "congressional" approval for war. There is no need to have a public discussion and votes within congress to intervene militarily... you know, like this would be the case in democracies, for example.
 
Oliver said:
You know exactly what I'm talking about:
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/US_Interventions_WBlumZ.html

You know that the US bombed Iraq for years before the "congressional" approval for war. There is no need to have a public discussion and votes within congress to intervene militarily... you know, like this would be the case in democracies, for example.
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What does that have to do with the article you posted by Hirsch?

Nothing.

What does Congress and current US political climate have to do with the propaganda piece you linked to?

Nothing.

Pres Bush 41 had Congressional support for Operation Desert Storm, 1990, and 1991, but I guess you didn't bother to check that. You'd rather stay stuck on stupid.

President Clinton ordered strikes on Iraq for violations of the UN No Fly Zone, and some strikes were direct responses to Iraq missiles shot at US warplanes.

But of course, you ignore the facts, you go to a propaganda site for your information.

Why do I bother?

DR
 
Darth Rotor said:
What does that have to do with the article you posted by Hirsch?

Nothing.

What does Congress and current US political climate have to do with the propaganda piece you linked to?

Nothing.

Pres Bush 41 had Congressional support for Operation Desert Storm, 1990, and 1991, but I guess you didn't bother to check that. You'd rather stay stuck on stupid.

President Clinton ordered strikes on Iraq for violations of the UN No Fly Zone, and some strikes were direct responses to Iraq missiles shot at US warplanes.

But of course, you ignore the facts, you go to a propaganda site for your information.

Why do I bother?

DR
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Oh, History is called "Propaganda" now by Hypocrites.

I'm not talking about Desert Storm or the No-Fly Zone, I'm talking about military interventions that doesn't need a congressional approval.

It's called "Covert Ops" or "Black Ops".
You know why they are called this way, don't you?

Oh wait, you're one of the Hypocrites who is opposed to similar actions provided by the Iranian Government.

Yeah, seeing the world trough red-striped glasses must be a pretty easy way to judge the world.
 
Tailgater said:
The laughing dog just died.

So do Germans think the Berlin Wall was to keep the sheep in or the dogs out? My Polish friend says to keep the sheep in. He's full of lovely Russian bastage stories.
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The Sheep in. Just like todays setup of America looks like.
Never mind - "the sheep within" were told the Wall is a protection, and most of them also swallowed it.

Anyway: "Watch out! There is a Communist, Socialist, Terrorist." :rolleyes:
 
From thirdworldlink said:
After World War II, the United States suppressed the popular progressive forces in favor of the conservatives who had collaborated with the Japanese. This led to a long era of corrupt, reactionary, and brutal governments.
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As opposed to how North Korea turned out under Communist rule.
 
Oliver said:
The Sheep in. Just like todays setup of America looks like.
Never mind - "the sheep within" were told the Wall is a protection, and most of them also swallowed it.

Anyway: "Watch out! There is a Communist, Socialist, Terrorist." :rolleyes:
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So, what are you comparing to the Berlin Wall exactly? I don't know anyone from the eastern bloc that were told it was for protection and believed it. I know alot of Polish immigrants from Chicago that suffered in that time period and wanted more than anything to get out.
 
From thirdworldlink said:
This in the name of fighting a supposed moral crusade against what cold warriors convinced themselves, and the American people, was the existence of an evil International Communist Conspiracy, which in fact never existed, evil or not.
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Yet he goes on to talk about the US fighting them in just about every surrounding country. So much for not existing.:rolleyes:

ETA: So much fun, but the kids come first, Adios.
 
Oliver said:
Oh wait, you're one of the Hypocrites who is opposed to similar actions provided by the Iranian Government.
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How about this, Eurotrash? Go read my argument against attacking Iran, the argument I had with BeAChooser. Start with his post, #56, and follow the fun.

It begins on page two of the thread, my first reply is post #61.

Better yet, go play in the Autobahn.

DR
 
Tailgater said:
So, what are you comparing to the Berlin Wall exactly? I don't know anyone from the eastern bloc that were told it was for protection and believed it. I know alot of Polish immigrants from Chicago that suffered in that time period and wanted more than anything to get out.
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The Wall between your patriotic education and reality.

Like I said: "Watch out! ... a Communist, Socialist, Terrorist! ... right behind you!".

You will remember me the next time you watch the presidential election debates.

Quite funny to see how propaganda works so well. Why? Because you have no Idea what I'm talking about.
 
Darth Rotor said:
How about this, Eurotrash? Go read my argument against attacking Iran, the argument I had with BeAChooser.

It begins on page two of the thread.

Better yet, go play in the Autobahn.

DR
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Why should I? America is the real threat concerning stability in the middle-east. You still don't get it. :rolleyes:

Oh wait - I am wrong: America isn't a threat - Someone held a speech. *shudder* :rolleyes:
 
from thirdworldlink said:
Libya refused to be a proper Middle East client state of Washington. Its leader, Muammar el-Qaddafi, was uppity. He would have to be punished. U.S. planes shot down two Libyan planes in what Libya regarded as its air space. The U. S . also dropped bombs on the country, killing at least 40 people, including Qaddafi's daughter. There were other attempts to assassinate the man, operations to overthrow him, a major disinformation campaign, economic sanctions, and blaming Libya for being behind the Pan Am 103 bombing without any good evidence.
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Ah hell, One more for the road.


http://www.history.com/tdih.do?action=tdihArticleCategory&id=4920

Libya has never formally admitted carrying out the 1988 Lockerbie bombing. In a letter to the United Nations it merely "accepted responsibility for the actions of its officials."

http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2003/sc7868.doc.htm
 
Darth Rotor said:
How about this, Eurotrash? Go read my argument against attacking Iran, the argument I had with BeAChooser. Start with his post, #56, and follow the fun.

It begins on page two of the thread, my first reply is post #61.

Better yet, go play in the Autobahn.

DR
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He won't. He still never returned to a thread where I broke down his inability to read in 911 strategists. As usual, when backed into a corner, ignores the post.
 
Oliver said:
The Wall between your patriotic education and reality.

Like I said: "Watch out! ... a Communist, Socialist, Terrorist! ... right behind you!".

You will remember me the next time you watch the presidential election debates.

Quite funny to see how propaganda works so well. Why? Because you have no Idea what I'm talking about.
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Hi

I lived in West Berlin for three years, as a boy. My father and mother had German friends, two families, with whom we still correspond, whose had cousins on the other side of the wall, and in the DDR.

You? I am stunned, Oliver, and dare I say, shocked.

Useful idiots who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it.

It's your own country, Oliver, you country, Germany, my third favorite country on the planet earth (behind US and UK) that was cut in two. Was the evil, imperialist US the problem there, Oliver?

Did the US BUILD THE FREAKING WALL IN 1961?

Did the US SHOOT ANY ONE TRYING TO GET OVER THE WALL?

Even more importantly, Oliver, did the West join the East, or did the East join the West on reunification? Which way did Freedom flow, Oliver, and who backed it up?

Moron.

DR
 
Oliver said:
The Wall between your patriotic education and reality.

Like I said: "Watch out! ... a Communist, Socialist, Terrorist! ... right behind you!".

You will remember me the next time you watch the presidential election debates.

Quite funny to see how propaganda works so well. Why? Because you have no Idea what I'm talking about.
Click to expand...

I know more from people that lived in the eastern bloc. I'll take their word over some bigoted internet worm.

Bah, actually have to go.
 
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