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Tim James "Language" Ad

Harpyja

Irrepressible Buzzard
Harpyja
Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Messages
653


No, it doesn't - as you only need to have the test translated once in each language, which is better than alienating an entire group of people from driving in your state. You know, those people contributing to the economy by living there, buying gas, using your state roads, etc.

:boggled:
 
What do you mean by you only have to have the test translated "once" in each language? Do you think they don't ever change the tests? I would think they would provide study guides and sample questions in these other languages as well.

Personally, I believe that it's a violation of the 14th amendment to provide services in any other language besides English unless you also provide services in every other language the government encounters. Otherwise you are creating privileged groups. USA law and court rulings are written in English, and you can't effectively translate them because many words have specific meanings. There's often a little something lost in the translation.
 
UncaYimmy said:
What do you mean by you only have to have the test translated "once" in each language? Do you think they don't ever change the tests? I would think they would provide study guides and sample questions in these other languages as well.

Personally, I believe that it's a violation of the 14th amendment to provide services in any other language besides English unless you also provide services in every other language the government encounters. Otherwise you are creating privileged groups. USA law and court rulings are written in English, and you can't effectively translate them because many words have specific meanings. There's often a little something lost in the translation.
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Any particular reason why the they would have the change the test, unless a traffic law was changed? (Even then, it would only be a minor update). Do traffic laws differ so much from state to state that portions couldn't be taken from other translations?

You have to consider the spirit of the law, though, and practical issues as well. I can't argue eloquently in regards to that point - I was never the greatest law student - but practically, I can argue that translating it into the second and third most common language in the region would do more good than harm. Also, wouldn't providing the test only in English violate the individual's right to liberty? Any individual who does not speak English is incapable of passing the exam, which means that they are incapable of driving a car. A majority of jobs require some form of transportation, and in this day and age people without a form of private transport are severely crippled in their ability to get around.
 
Harpyja said:
Any particular reason why the they would have the change the test, unless a traffic law was changed? (Even then, it would only be a minor update).
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Yes. It is not unusual at all to find certain questions are worded in a way that requires rewording.

Do traffic laws differ so much from state to state that portions couldn't be taken from other translations?
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Contacting other states takes resources as well.


You have to consider the spirit of the law, though, and practical issues as well. I can't argue eloquently in regards to that point - I was never the greatest law student - but practically, I can argue that translating it into the second and third most common language in the region would do more good than harm.
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It has the effect of treating certain "races" more favorably than others.


Also, wouldn't providing the test only in English violate the individual's right to liberty?
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No. As I said, it needs to be either one language or every language the government encounters. Furthermore, English is a requirement to understanding the laws of this nation. Try filing a lawsuit or introducing a law in another language.

Any individual who does not speak English is incapable of passing the exam, which means that they are incapable of driving a car.
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A person who does not learn driving laws is incapable of pasing the exam and driving a car. Same for those who cannot read. Driving is a privilege, not a right.

A majority of jobs require some form of transportation, and in this day and age people without a form of private transport are severely crippled in their ability to get around.
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I disagree with "severely crippled" but whatever. I'd say somebody who can't speak or write English is more crippled in the mob market than somebody who has to rely on public transportation or foot power. Driving is a convenience.
 
Nova Land said:
No, it doesn't what? I'd like to tag this thread, but I have no idea what you are talking about.

Yes, I realize you have embedded a video in the thread. If you, or someone else who has watched the video, would be good enough to summarize the content of the video, that would be very helpful.
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It's a 30 second video.
 
I would like to be able to drive to my English language classes. You know the ones, at the university, where I teach physics to Alabama natives. I think I would rather they knew a bit more about physics before they let them drive.

Want to know something funny?
From the Alabama Drivers License Manual under who does not need to have an Alabama Drivers License: "A resident at least 16 years old who has in his immediate possession a valid driver license issued to him in his home state or country." (Highlight added)

Tempest in a teapot maybe?
 
Harpyja said:
A majority of jobs require some form of transportation, and in this day and age people without a form of private transport are severely crippled in their ability to get around.
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Oh dear, I'm a cripple. Was I a cripple all my life, or did "this day and age" only start recently? It never stopped me getting anywhere, by the way - I think you'll find a lot of determined 'cripples' in wheelchairs say much the same. (I am not a wheelchair user, I should clarify)

A majority of jobs require some form of transportation? Really? Are you sure? Or did you just make it up? Why would I need to drive to be a teacher, a miner, an office drone or countless other jobs? It might help to reach some workplaces, and it may even be true that the majority of employers who specify a need for a driving license in a given role sincerely believe that it couldn't be done any other way. They're mostly wrong, but that's rarely a good pitch to a prospective employer.

There's an ex-Home Secretary of the UK who didn't drive - on account of being blind. I don't suppose he much cared for the word 'cripple' either, on either count. For myself, I've lived in rural Scotland, rural Wales and deepest, darkest Dorset (the county with the fewest major roads in England) and never felt 'crippled'. Now I live in a town that saw a showdown with the road protest movement over a bypass. The bypass has been built, the town is still clogged with traffic and I do feel disadvantaged - every new development starts from the assumption that people will drive there, and provision of public transport is poor.

I take a lot of taxi rides (and take advantage of delivery services for groceries and other goods). There is a cost, of course - I haven't done the sums, but I think it's probably less than the cost of maintaining, insuring, fueling and parking a private vehicle that is barely used outside the daily commute. Oh, and the cost of speeding and parking fines - I don't know a single driver who has a clean criminal record. I make a point of seeking work within easy walking distance, although at times I've commuted two hours a day on a bus.

There is another down side to not driving, mind: the number of women I talk to who like my face and my voice and my interest in them, but lose interest pretty quickly when they ask (as they do so often and so early) "what car do you drive?"
 
marplots said:
I would like to be able to drive to my English language classes. You know the ones, at the university, where I teach physics to Alabama natives. I think I would rather they knew a bit more about physics before they let them drive.

Want to know something funny?
From the Alabama Drivers License Manual under who does not need to have an Alabama Drivers License: "A resident at least 16 years old who has in his immediate possession a valid driver license issued to him in his home state or country." (Highlight added)

Tempest in a teapot maybe?
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What about people who move to Alabama? You don't have to renew your license after a certain period of time?

jiggeryqua said:
Oh dear, I'm a cripple. Was I a cripple all my life, or did "this day and age" only start recently? It never stopped me getting anywhere, by the way - I think you'll find a lot of determined 'cripples' in wheelchairs say much the same. (I am not a wheelchair user, I should clarify)

A majority of jobs require some form of transportation? Really? Are you sure? Or did you just make it up? Why would I need to drive to be a teacher, a miner, an office drone or countless other jobs? It might help to reach some workplaces, and it may even be true that the majority of employers who specify a need for a driving license in a given role sincerely believe that it couldn't be done any other way. They're mostly wrong, but that's rarely a good pitch to a prospective employer.

There's an ex-Home Secretary of the UK who didn't drive - on account of being blind. I don't suppose he much cared for the word 'cripple' either, on either count. For myself, I've lived in rural Scotland, rural Wales and deepest, darkest Dorset (the county with the fewest major roads in England) and never felt 'crippled'. Now I live in a town that saw a showdown with the road protest movement over a bypass. The bypass has been built, the town is still clogged with traffic and I do feel disadvantaged - every new development starts from the assumption that people will drive there, and provision of public transport is poor.

I take a lot of taxi rides (and take advantage of delivery services for groceries and other goods). There is a cost, of course - I haven't done the sums, but I think it's probably less than the cost of maintaining, insuring, fueling and parking a private vehicle that is barely used outside the daily commute. Oh, and the cost of speeding and parking fines - I don't know a single driver who has a clean criminal record. I make a point of seeking work within easy walking distance, although at times I've commuted two hours a day on a bus.

There is another down side to not driving, mind: the number of women I talk to who like my face and my voice and my interest in them, but lose interest pretty quickly when they ask (as they do so often and so early) "what car do you drive?"
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I know several drivers who have clean records.

Is it possible to use "cripple" without meaning "disabled?" Would "severely impedes" have been a better word for you? :rolleyes:

Like you yourself have said, you've had to make accommodations. They may not have been severe, but they were accommodations. Like you yourself said, some employers specify that you need a driver's license. You're impeding on an individual's ability to get around. I've been through Alabama - there are parts where it's not much different than my state, in which having a car is a significant advantage for anyone who has a job. Some people cannot afford to take taxis, or have their groceries delivered to their house.

I live in a neighboring state where I frequently encounter people who only speak Spanish. Should they not move to his state if they so choose?

Also - when I think about it, if this were proposed through some other sort of legislation, I wouldn't be so angry. It's the fact that this man is campaigning on the concept of English-speaking Americans being a privileged class. He's clearly appealing to the idea that English is the only language we should speak in this country. Such closed-minded thinking irks me, as both of my grandparents were legal immigrants who served in the war, one of whom had a fairly poor grasp of advanced English and would most likely fail a driver's test if given to him in English.

Nova Land, is there any reason you can't watch that video?
 
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Harpyja said:
Nova Land, is there any reason you can't watch that video?
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Yes, there is.

Rather than derail this thread with an explanation of the reasons for my request, I'll start a new thread elsewhere in the forum (and will PM you, and/or post a link in this thread, when I do).

I'm going to be away, with limited computer access, from Thursday through Monday, and don't have much free time between now and taking off on that trip, so now is not the best time for me to start a new thread. I'll try to get that done on Tuesday.
 
For those who haven't seen this video, its an election advertisement of Tim James a gubernatorial candidate in Alabama who wanted to get rid of all the languages other than English on the Alabama drivers license test.
 
NYCEMT86 said:
For those who haven't seen this video, its an election advertisement of Tim James a gubernatorial candidate in Alabama who wanted to get rid of all the languages other than English on the Alabama drivers license test.
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Thank you.

That is much appreciated -- especially if, as ladewig indicates, the link to the video no longer works. (Links, including links to embedded videos, often expire, making posts relating to the link useless if they don't include a summary of what the poster is trying to refer to. That's something people who post naked links should keep in mind.)

Thanks to your summary I am now able to put some appropriate tags on this thread. Tags are based on thread content, not on link content. Without your summary (which is admirably brief and clear!) the comments in this thread made little to no sense -- sort of like walking in an hour late on a complex movie. So again, thank you.
 
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KingMerv00 said:
People unable to speak English are not a suspect class.
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I disagree but acknowledge your expertise in this field and look forward to being shown what I am missing.

http://openjurist.org/625/f2d/547
The fourteenth amendment is broader than the fifteenth. Its protective buckler shields all citizens of the United States from abridgment of privileges and immunities of citizens, and all persons from deprivation of life, liberty and property without due process and from denial of the equal protection of the law. Congress's power under section 5 of the fourteenth amendment clearly extends to protection of any group of persons invidiously discriminated against by state law including groups identifiable by ethnic, national origin or linguistic characteristics.
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Harpyja said:
Would "severely impedes" have been a better word for you? :rolleyes:
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Aside from it being two words, no - as I said, and you glossed over, "It never stopped me getting anywhere". So, not 'crippled', 'disabled' or even 'severely impeded'. Just different. I'm sure it's tempting to imagine you're normal, and different = wrong in some way, especially when you're in a majority. But your being unable to imagine a life without a car doesn't make those of us who manage it 'disabled'. :rolleyes:
 
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