Threatening Petroeuro?

[RandFan]

There is a rumor that the Invasion of Iraq had something to do with Saddam's plans to switch to the Petroeuro which allegedly would have threatened the US economy.

Now I'm not very familiar with the Petrodollar/Petroeuro system - what would have been/would be the damage for the US economy if Saudi Arabia, Iraq or Iran would have switched/will switch to the Petroeuro?

And would this pose a more dangerous threat for America if Iran would switch to the Euro than Iran having a nuclear bomb?

I'll bet that is a real wet dream for you.

 

[Oliver]

I'll bet that is a real wet dream for you.

Actually ... no. My wet dreams are about the female species.

So let me ask you, too:

What happens to the US-Dollar if all Oil on the planet is being sold in Petro-Euro instead Petro-Dollar?

 

[jsiv]

How many dollars to a petrodollar? Is the petroeuro a euro coin dipped in crude oil and left to dry, maybe with a clear coating?

Can't we just say dollar and euro.

 

[Gurdur]

Educate me.

No. You can educate us instead. You were the one so certain there is no oil in Europe -- I guess Britain, Norway and Russia aren't in Europe for you. Since you are so certain, you can simply state your certainties.

We can then look on and comment.

Oh really? Do they sell their oil in Euros or Dollars to America?

Why don't you tell us? See just above.

I like you, Gurdur

Save all your affection for Flo. You're going to need it after you get blenderized in the debate.

 

[Gurdur]

....Can't we just say dollar and euro.

No, you can't. MaGZ must say shekel, Ion must say thaler, you must say forint, WildCat must say lira, RandFan can occasionally exclaim FOREX, Darth Rotor can say baht, Flo can say drachma, and of course Oliver will say whatever comes into his head at any moment.

 

[NoZed Avenger]

No. That's why I started this thread: Educate me.

Regardless of your lack of economic knowledge, can you see a problem with the part of my post that you ignored?

i.e.:

So, as far as I can tell, your theory here depends on the threat of dumping dollars being so great to the economy of the US that it will go to war over it, and simultaneously dumping the dollar will have absolutely no effect at all on the dollar's value.

Forgetting economics for a moment and sticking merely to logic, can you see a problem there?

 

[Oliver]

Regardless of your lack of economic knowledge, can you see a problem with the part of my post that you ignored?

i.e.:

Forgetting economics for a moment and sticking merely to logic, can you see a problem there?

Yes, a problem in sentence-construction. I don't know the full context but this sentence doesn't make much sense.

 

[RandFan]

What happens to the US-Dollar if all Oil on the planet is being sold in Petro-Euro instead Petro-Dollar?

Would you honestly consider the answer?

I've never seen a willingness on your part Oliver to accept reasoned argument. When bested on an argument you simply stop posting. You seem to me to have a deep sense of schadenfreude for America and delight in any and all possible misfortunes that might come our way. This explains your daily threads about America's woes.

That's fine. I just don't take you seriously. If I do respond to you it will actually be to communicate to others.

Cheers,

RandFan

 

[Elizabeth I]

No, you can't. MaGZ must say shekel, Ion must say thaler, you must say forint, WildCat must say lira, RandFan can occasionally exclaim FOREX, Darth Rotor can say baht, Flo can say drachma, and of course Oliver will say whatever comes into his head at any moment.

Shouldn't Flo say francs? And could I say peso?

 

[Ion]

American imbecility below:

Wasn't Iraq trading oil for "food?"

..and wasn't this "food" really the euro?

yawn

Oil for food was designed and pushed by U.S..

In 1996.

More of rockoon's garbage:

Is that what I did? Gee, thanks for explaining it to me.


Iraq was trading oil for euros already through the Oil for Scumbags Food program. There couldnt have been a "threat" to start trading on euros if it was already happening.

Halliburton's Cheney (V.P. of U.S. now) took kickbacks from Iraq in the oil-for-food program.

Today's The San Diego Union Tribune writes in page A15:

"Kickbacks

Texas oilman David Chalmers pleaded guilty yesterday to paying millions of dollars in secret kickbacks to Iraq in connection with the United Nations oil-for-food program..."

Come on, rockoon of retarded posts fame, make my day.

 

[NoZed Avenger]

Yes, a problem in sentence-construction. I don't know the full context but this sentence doesn't make much sense.

That is because your position doesn't make sense.

Your position (in part) as it has wandered through this thread requires two things:

(1) dumping the dollar is a huge threat to the dollar's value and the US economy. So big a threat, in fact, that the US will go to war over it; and

(2) dumping the dollar will have -- you say this expressly as quoted above -- absolutely no effect at all on the dollar's value.


Do you see the problem with trying to hold both of those positions simultaneously, or are we to be treated to more rhetorical smoke?

 

[Gurdur]

Shouldn't Flo say francs? And could I say peso?

No. It's drachmas all the way down for Flo, and it's the Đong for you.

 

[Oliver]

That is because your position doesn't make sense.

Your position (in part) as it has wandered through this thread requires two things:

(1) dumping the dollar is a huge threat to the dollar's value and the US economy. So big a threat, in fact, that the US will go to war over it; and

(2) dumping the dollar will have -- you say this expressly as quoted above -- absolutely no effect at all on the dollar's value.


Do you see the problem with trying to hold both of those positions simultaneously, or are we to be treated to more rhetorical smoke?

I don't know if I follow your argument that dumping the Dollar has no effect to the Dollar. What I've read so far, is contradicting to your statement. So who's right?

Strategic thinkers, if any remain who have not been purged by neocons, will quickly conclude that China’s power over the value of the dollar and US interest rates also gives China power over US foreign policy. The US was able to attack Afghanistan and Iraq only because China provided the largest part of the financing for Bush’s wars. If China ceased to buy US Treasuries, Bush’s wars would end. The savings rate of US consumers is essentially zero, and several million are afflicted with mortgages that they cannot afford. With Bush’s budget in deficit and with no room in the US consumer’s budget for a tax increase, Bush’s wars can only be financed by foreigners.

No country on earth, except for Israel, supports the Bush regimes’ desire to attack Iran. It is China’s decision whether it calls in the US ambassador, and delivers the message that there will be no attack on Iran or further war unless the US is prepared to buy back $900 billion in US Treasury bonds and other dollar assets. The US, of course, has no foreign reserves with which to make the purchase. The impact of such a large sale on US interest rates would wreck the US economy and effectively end Bush’s war-making capability. Moreover, other governments would likely follow the Chinese lead, as the main support for the US dollar has been China’s willingness to accumulate them. If the largest holder dumped the dollar, other countries would dump dollars, too.

The value and purchasing power of the US dollar would fall. When hard-pressed Americans went to Wal-Mart to make their purchases, the new prices would make them think they had wandered into Nieman Marcus. Americans would not be able to maintain their current living standard.

Full source: http://baltimorechronicle.com/2007/081607Roberts.shtml

 

[RandFan]

Do you see the problem with trying to hold both of those positions simultaneously, or are we to be treated to more rhetorical smoke?

I don't know if I follow your argument that dumping the Dollar has no effect to the Dollar. What I've read so far, is contradicting to your statement. So who's right?

Well, to be honest, Oliver is. But then, by process of elimination, Oliver must also be wrong.

You never disapoint Oliver. Never mind that NZA's argument, at this point, isn't that there is no effect but with your contradictory statements.

 

[Elizabeth I]

No. It's drachmas all the way down for Flo, and it's the Đong for you.

How rude!

 

[NoZed Avenger]

I don't know if I follow your argument that dumping the Dollar has no effect to the Dollar. What I've read so far, is contradicting to your statement. So who's right?

It isn't my statement. It is *your* position. *You* are the one that (upthread) offered a guarantee -- I quoted you -- that dumping the dollar would have no effect on the value of the dollar.

And yes, it is contradicted.

By your own, other position.

Check back at your starting argument: dumping the dollar is so catatrophic to its value that the US would go to war rather than allow it to happen.

It is something special when someone who knows next to nothing about economics makes pronouncements from on high about the real effects of any international financial transaction (as you did).

It is even more special when that same person has to hold simultaneously, diametrically-opposed positions within the same argument to make it work.

But the absolute *best* is when, not only did that person not even notice his own contradiction, but he cannot see it after being led to it and shown it.

No, I was wrong. The best thing is that I know what your response will be, and that *everyone else* has already seen what you've done, and will enjoy your response even more than I.

 

[Oliver]

It isn't my statement. It is *your* position. *You* are the one that (upthread) offered a guarantee -- I quoted you -- that dumping the dollar would have no effect on the value of the dollar.

And yes, it is contradicted.

By your own, other position.

Check back at your starting argument: dumping the dollar is so catatrophic to its value that the US would go to war rather than allow it to happen.

It is something special when someone who knows next to nothing about economics makes pronouncements from on high about the real effects of any international financial transaction (as you did).

It is even more special when that same person has to hold simultaneously, diametrically-opposed positions within the same argument to make it work.

But the absolute *best* is when, not only did that person not even notice his own contradiction, but he cannot see it after being led to it and shown it.

No, I was wrong. The best thing is that I know what your response will be, and that *everyone else* has already seen what you've done, and will enjoy your response even more than I.

Huh? I mixed up something by mistranslating it and you make a circus out of it instead realizing that I made a mistake in the statement in question?

 

[Corsair 115]

Considering that Canada is the #1 source for oil imported into the U.S. (and Mexico is #2), I can't see how a Petro-whatever currency would be of much help. It'd only complicate things - instead of merely converting Canadian and American dollars from one to the other, you'd first have to convert Canadian or American dollars to this petro currency, then convert that petro currency into Canadian or American dollars again.

Uh, where's the benefit exactly?

 

[RandFan]

Considering that Canada is the #1 source for oil imported into the U.S. (and Mexico is #2), I can't see how a Petro-whatever currency would be of much help. It'd only complicate things - instead of merely converting Canadian and American dollars from one to the other, you'd first have to convert Canadian or American dollars to this petro currency, then convert that petro currency into Canadian or American dollars again.

Uh, where's the benefit exactly?

It's a shell game. Not that such events would be without ramifications for the American economy. There would be. The consequences are not nearly as severe as Oliver would like you to believe though.

BTW, China's option of calling in their treasury notes would have disastrous consequences for them. Who the hell does China sell it's products to? The option only has validity when considered in a vacuum. International trade doesn't happen in a vacuum. That's the part simplistic morons don't consider (by moron I was referring to the author of the article and not Oliver. Oliver's ignorance of international trade doesn't by itself make Oliver a moron.).

 

[Flo]

Well, I tried to get an expert from Deutsche Bank on the phone, but unfortunately they persisted to know if I'm a customer of them and what this information is needed for, so they refused to forward me after I explained that I'm writing an article about the subject and want to speak to someone who is familiar with this topic. Their reply was that I should write to their Press-department to get a formal answer.

How this relates to my "hypothesis"? Well, I'm waiting for their reply...

If you mentioned your hypothesis to them, I doubt you will get a reply.

I can imagine all the , , and that were going on while answering on the phone, followed by the between the traders afterwards !