Threatening Petroeuro?

[Oliver]

Here are the latest news about "Dollar, China, Iran, Euro":

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&um=1&tab=wn&ie=UTF-8&q=china+dollar+euro+iran&btnG=Search+News

 

[Oliver]

I think it would hurt everyone to mess with the flow at all. Oil is affected globally, not just who one country gives too. Germany and Japan look to be the top 2 consumers without being able to produce their own oil. If an "oil war" truly broke out, production and reserves of each country would come in to play.

Wow, are we heading down a long derail or what?

It's a super-interesting Issue - even more than blaming the US for Iraq p). But kidding aside - this would also make a cool topic within the conspiracy Theory forum.

Now concerning the Oil Flow: I'm not that sure if China would cut off Europe as a whole if they would make the decision to ruin the Dollar. And I don't know who could do something about it. But that the Dollar is the United States Achilles heel, seems to be the sad fact in this issue.

So I guess you understand why I included the possibility that Iran and Iraq may have something to do with all of that. It's not absurd for those who understand a little bit more concerning these Issues, is it?

 

[Tailgater]

It's a super-interesting Issue - even more than blaming the US for Iraq p). But kidding aside - this would also make a cool topic within the conspiracy Theory forum.

Now concerning the Oil Flow: I'm not that sure if China would cut off Europe as a whole if they would make the decision to ruin the Dollar. And I don't know who could do something about it. But that the Dollar is the United States Achilles heel, seems to be the sad fact in this issue.

So I guess you understand why I included the possibility that Iran and Iraq may have something to do with all of that. It's not absurd for those who understand a little bit more concerning these Issues, is it?

I added a link to post 100 if you didn't see it. Thought you might find it interesting. Yes, it is interesting discussing strategies of the world with you when you are not so focused on one country. I think we have shown that there is concern globally about the dollar, but not enough to mortgage our economy for generations supporting a war over one country switching to euros. I'm off to real life things like my kids.

Have a good weekend.

 

[Oliver]

I don't know anything about the sources credibility since they already have a strange name. (Besides naming Bloomberg as source)

Japan Drops Dollar to Buy Iran’s Oil

Iran has asked Japanese oil refiners to pay for all future deliveries in yen, as opposed to dollars, according to a letter obtained by Bloomberg News.

Central banks in South Korea, China and Taiwan have all announced plans to diversify away from the dollar. Last year Russia, Syria and Italy also said they intended to reduce their dollar holdings.

Source: http://www.thetrumpet.com/index.php?page=article&id=3436

ETA: Okeley Dokeley: Have fun on your weekend with the Kids.

 

[jsiv]

Isn't it obvious that China can't "ruin the dollar" since their entire economy depends on it?

It certainly doesn't follow that China would emerge as the world's superpower after pulling that stunt. They are entirely dependant on us doing well in order to survive.

I don't know what the future has in store for China, but they're going to have to change a lot if they are to join western society. The cheap labor,and reverse engineering/cloning of products will have to go -- and those are a huge part of their economy.

 

[Oliver]

Isn't it obvious that China can't "ruin the dollar" since their entire economy depends on it?

It certainly doesn't follow that China would emerge as the world's superpower after pulling that stunt. They are entirely dependant on us doing well in order to survive.

I don't know what the future has in store for China, but they're going to have to change a lot if they are to join western society. The cheap labor,and reverse engineering/cloning of products will have to go -- and those are a huge part of their economy.

According to what I've read so far, China will be the next superpower anyway soon with their economical increase and they also lend money to the US.

The US isn't the only export-partner, so such a stunt to ruin the Dollar, wouldn't ruin them, too. But I agree - it might hurt for a while.

And concerning "western society". I doubt that they would have to care about this issue - being the new "Western World".

 

[jsiv]

According to what I've read so far, China will be the next superpower anyway soon with their economical increase and they also lend money to the US.

The US isn't the only export-partner, so such a stunt to ruin the Dollar, wouldn't ruin them, too. But I agree - it might hurt for a while.

And concerning "western society". I doubt that they would have to care about this issue - being the new "Western World".

The issue is why their economy is doing so well.Their economy is based on unethical practices and being able to undercut the competition, and that is something that will get harder and harder to do. As their economy grows stronger and the standard of living higher, they will gradually lose that edge over the West.

That is of course unless they manage to find other ways of competing, which they might, but I still think they're going to run into problems.

 

[Oliver]

The issue is why their economy is doing so well.Their economy is based on unethical practices and being able to undercut the competition, and that is something that will get harder and harder to do. As their economy grows stronger and the standard of living higher, they will gradually lose that edge over the West.

That is of course unless they manage to find other ways of competing, which they might, but I still think they're going to run into problems.

I agree - it is indeed a reason for their success. But even if you're concerned about that - why should they be concerned or care about it? Maybe this will happen automatically during reforms in the future.

And once they have earned enough money to allow themselves to "throw some of it out of the window" because they're swimming in Money - what or who would hinder them to dump the Dollar together with Iran and Russia?

Neither Russia, Iran nor China are the world leaders concerning human rights, are they?

 

[Grammatron]

I
And once they have earned enough money to allow themselves to "throw some of it out of the window" because they're swimming in Money - what or who would hinder them to dump the Dollar together with Iran and Russia?

Explain what "dumping dollar" means.

 

[jsiv]

I agree - it is indeed a reason for their success. But even if you're concerned about that - why should they be concerned or care about it?

Why should China care about its future? What a strange question.

I don't know, same reason Norway should be concerned about what happens once the oil runs out, I suppose.

 

[Oliver]

Explain what "dumping dollar" means.

I posted it some posts ago - but dumping the Dollar means this:

Attack on the US dollar

One of the pillars propping up US superpower status and worldwide economic dominance is the dollar being accepted as the predominant reserve currency. Central banks of various countries have to stock up dollar reserves because they can only buy their oil requirements and other major commodities in US dollars.

This US economic strength, however, is a double-edged sword and can turn out to be America's economic Achilles' heel. A run of the US dollar, for instance, which would cause a dollar free-fall, can bring the entire US economy toppling down. What is frightening for the US is the fact that China, Russia and Iran possess the power to cause a run on the US dollar and force its collapse.

China is now the biggest holder of foreign exchange reserves in the world, accumulating $941 billion as of June 30 and expected to exceed a trillion dollars by the end of 2006 - a first in world history. A decision by China to shift a major portion of its reserve to the euro or the yen or gold could trigger other central banks to follow suit. Nobody would want to be left behind holding a bagfull of dollars rapidly turning worthless. The herd psychology would be very difficult to control in this case because national economic survival would be at stake.

Source:http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/HJ19Ad01.html

 

[Oliver]

Why should China care about its future? What a strange question.

I don't know, same reason Norway should be concerned about what happens once the oil runs out, I suppose.

I'm not talking about "Why should China care about their future concerning exports" - I'm rather talking about "Why shouldn't China care about it's Future and make themselves the new superpower - making their own rules".

I know this sounds futuristic. But once China has enough economical power to compress the Impact of the Dollar-Collapse - why should they care at all? They can still trade with anyone else on the planet - even if the US society/trade is down.

 

[danielk]

I posted it some posts ago - but dumping the Dollar means this:

OK, I finished skimming through the article. The alarmist tone of the part you bolded doesn't stand out, since the whole article is a gleeful contemplation orgy of possible ways the "arrogant" superpower USA might get hurt. What is missing is a coherent argument to support the wild speculations of the author - all I can see are assertions that this or that is going to happen. Do you have a more substantial source supporting these claims?

 

[Grammatron]

Ok Oliver, let's say China decided, tomorrow, to sell off all their dollars for Euros.

Who will buy the dollars?

 

[Oliver]

OK, I finished skimming through the article. The alarmist tone of the part you bolded doesn't stand out, since the whole article is a gleeful contemplation orgy of possible ways the "arrogant" superpower USA might get hurt. What is missing is a coherent argument to support the wild speculations of the author - all I can see are assertions that this or that is going to happen. Do you have a more substantial source supporting these claims?

You could Google or Wikipedia to get familiar with this issue for a start:

Petroeuro statt Petrodollar - China stellt um - n-tv.de

Google-News DE:
http://www.google.de/search?hl=de&q=iran+china+dollar&btnG=Google-Suche&meta=

Google-News ENG:
http://news.google.com/news?source=...ct=property-revision&cd=1&q=iran+china+dollar

Wiki-Entries:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrodollar
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroeuro

• Petrocurrency
• Petrodollar
• Petrobourse
• Bush Doctrine
• Petrodollar warfare
• Monetary Hegemony

 

[Oliver]

Ok Oliver, let's say China decided, tomorrow, to sell off all their dollars for Euros.

Who will buy the dollars?

They don't have to "sell" their Dollars. They could simply "buy" Gold or whatever with their money. This way they would get rid of their Dollar-Stock. Just like you buying a Ferrari with all your savings to get rid of your dollars.

Or they invest it in the stock market or something.

 

[Grammatron]

They don't have to "sale" their Dollars. They could simply "buy" Gold or whatever with their money. This way the would get rid of their money. Just like you buying a Ferrari with all your savings to get rid of your dollar.

Or they invest it in the stock market or something.

....ok

Where do you think those dollars go after they buy Gold?
And who would want to sell China gold for the useless(according to your article) dollars?

 

[Oliver]

....ok

Where do you think those dollars go after they buy Gold?
And who would want to sell China gold for the useless(according to your article) dollars?

I guess you didn't get the point. They could invest into european stocks and buy large amounts of "real estate-Shares", "Medic-Shares" and "Software-Shares" - for example. I don't know what exactly the could do. We're speculating here since no one can predict when the Dollar will collapse and for what reasons. But it surely would be the end of the America you and me know.

 

[danielk]

You could Google or Wikipedia to get familiar with this issue for a start:

Thanks for the link spamming. If you think I haven't heard of this issue before you are mistaken. Anyway I'm going to walk through these articles one by one, as I find the time. Let's start at the top:

Petroeuro statt Petrodollar - China stellt um - n-tv.de

The article says that Iran is threatening to stop trading in Dollars because of current US policies. If this is true, wouldn't it be economically advantageous for the US to reduce the pressure on Iran? How do you conclude that there is an economic incentive for the US to maintain its current hardline stance in the international arena?

 

[danielk]

I guess you didn't get the point. They could invest into european stocks and buy large amounts of "real estate-Shares", "Medic-Shares" and "Software-Shares" - for example. I don't know what exactly the could do. We're speculating here since no one can predict when the Dollar will collapse and for what reasons. But it surely would be the end of the America you and me know.

No, I think you didn't get the point. Money is a bit like energy: it isn't simply destroyed and has to go somewhere. If China buys stocks or real estate or whatever in Europe and pays in Dollars, then that also means that Europe buys Dollars and pays in stocks or real estate or whatever.