Those copper bracelets

[Undodog]

A small group of my friends are amateur and professional magicians (the card-trick kind) and they fully understand how cold-reading and mentalism works and how people can be duped by a bit of deception done with confidence.

BUT… Last night I noticed one of them wearing a copper bracelet.
I asked him why and he said it cured arthritis. The guy is in his mid 20’s but is convinced that the reason he doesn’t have arthritic problems is because of the bracelet.
Another friend even backed him up saying that he’s seen a lot of people wearing them and ‘they DO work’.
(This second friend also thinks the moon landings were faked.)

I was shocked at some of the things they were saying, presented as evidence, “My auntie swears by them”, “There’s copper in your blood already” and “My uncle wears one and he knows it’s working because his wrist has gone blue.”

He got it from Boots, a big-name and very trusted UK chemist. Who, on their website describe the bracelets as, “Simple, stylish open ended bracelet, as worn by many sufferers of rheumatism and arthritis.” They also have more expensive gold-plated versions which, “combine simplistic styling and the health related benefits of pure copper and magnetism.”

I was caught off guard at the time but will be seeing them again on Sunday.
Any links to articles and research would be much appreciated as I plan to educate them when I have ‘had a few’ on Sunday night.

Similarly, I admit to not knowing much about the subject so arguments for copper bracelets would also be welcomed.

Cheers in advance.

 

[The Don]

One theory of how they work is to do with magnetism and bloodflow. Florscheim shoes used to do somehting similar with their magnetic shoes, but they were forced to wihdraw the on the grounds that they didn't work

alternatively

Copper Bracelets: - Work in universities and medical centres throughout the world has indicated that copper deficiency may be the cause of rheumatic aches and pains. It is believed that a copper bracelet worn next to the skin may rectify this imbalance and give general relief to the whole body.

http://www.worldwideshoppingmall.co.uk/body-soul/shelves/copper-bracelets-herbal-tea.asp

so suck on a penny

 

[Soapy Sam]

I emailed Boots, asking about these last year. I pointed out that they were on sale beside medecines and that people could be misled by Boots' reputation into thinking they were a recognised treatment. I never received a reply.

Someone else here tried soon after. I don't know what came of it.

 

[patnray]

As for the statement "They also have more expensive gold-plated versions which, 'combine simplistic styling and the health related benefits of pure copper and magnetism.' ", note that neither copper nor gold are magnetic. Even if they were, I know of no studies that show that weak magnetic fields (of the strength that could be produced by a bracelet) have any effect on humans.

As for The Don's comment, note that his reference said "copper deficiency MAY be the cause of rheumatic aches and pains. It is BELIEVED that a copper bracelet worn next to the skin MAY rectify this imbalance..." No indication that either claim has been verified. I do not believe this is a widely held belief. And if it were true, wouldn't copper supplements be more effective than wearing a bracelet?

And if a copper bracelet is gold plated, then the copper will no longer be in contact with the skin...

 

[Thinking in CT]

Those Copper bracelets

Recently the US Federal Trade Commission took action against a US peddler of "magic bracelets". Have your friends check out this web page; (excerpt):

"FTC Seeks To Halt Deceptive Pain Relief Claims and Provide Consumer Refunds

The Federal Trade Commission has charged Illinois-based marketers of a purported pain- relief product called the Q-Ray Ionized Bracelet (Q-Ray Bracelet) with making false and unsubstantiated claims. In its complaint filed in federal district court, the FTC alleges that QT, Inc., Q-Ray, Company, and Bio-Metal, Inc., all operating out of one location in Elk Grove Village, Illinois, and their principals, Que Te Park and Jung Joo Park, violated the FTC Act by deceptively claiming that the Q-Ray Bracelet is a fast-acting effective treatment for various types of pain and that tests prove that the Q-Ray Bracelet relieves pain. In fact, according to the FTC, a recent study conducted by the Mayo Clinic in Jacksonville, Florida, shows that the Q-Ray Bracelet is no more effective than a placebo bracelet at relieving muscular and joint pain. ..."

(in full):

http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2003/06/qtinc.htm


The expression of "Woo Woo", Spiritualism, New Age, and Pseudoscientific beliefs is protected from government regulation by the 1st amendment to the US Constitution; but if products and services are sold to the public using false and/or misleading statements the consumer protection laws (state and federal) can and should be enforced. The above case is a good example. Remember, these sorts of cases are consumer complaint driven. I urge all readers of this forum to urge people that they know who have been duped by for-profit charlatans to complain to the FTC or to their state consumer protection agencies.

 

[Psi Baba]

Re: Those Copper bracelets

Recently the US Federal Trade Commission took action against a US peddler of "magic bracelets". Have your friends check out this web page; (excerpt):

"FTC Seeks To Halt Deceptive Pain Relief Claims and Provide Consumer Refunds

The Federal Trade Commission has charged Illinois-based marketers of a purported pain- relief product called the Q-Ray Ionized Bracelet (Q-Ray Bracelet) with making false and unsubstantiated claims. In its complaint filed in federal district court, the FTC alleges that QT, Inc., Q-Ray, Company, and Bio-Metal, Inc., all operating out of one location in Elk Grove Village, Illinois, and their principals, Que Te Park and Jung Joo Park, violated the FTC Act by deceptively claiming that the Q-Ray Bracelet is a fast-acting effective treatment for various types of pain and that tests prove that the Q-Ray Bracelet relieves pain. In fact, according to the FTC, a recent study conducted by the Mayo Clinic in Jacksonville, Florida, shows that the Q-Ray Bracelet is no more effective than a placebo bracelet at relieving muscular and joint pain. ..."

(in full):

http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2003/06/qtinc.htm

And the Q-Ray advertisements are back in full force. I've seen numerous commercials for them in the last several weeks. Curiously (although we know why), the commercials never say anything about what it is alleged to do. Not one thing. They just assume you've already heard of them and know what they are about. The commercial merely shows sucker and sucker spouting lame testimonials about how great they are, and the spokesman merely says, "Order your Q-Ray bracelet now!" Those things are $150!

 

[Rolfe]

Re: Re: Those Copper bracelets

The commercial merely shows sucker and sucker spouting lame testimonials about how great they are, ....

For "sucker", read "actor", I suspect.

Don't honestly think that there's a shred of evidence that copper deficiency is linked to arthritis. Or that copper is absorbed in metallic form through intact skin.

Rolfe.

 

[Thinking in CT]

Those Copper Bracelets

Here is the current status of the Q-Ray Case as reported in the published statistical report of the FTC as of 12/03:


"FTC v. QT, INC., No. 03C-3578 (N.D. Ill.)

Parties: QT, Inc.
Q-Ray Company
Bio-Metal, Inc.
Que Te Park, a/k/a Andrew Q. Park
Jung Joo Park

Alleged Conduct: Deceptive practices in violation of Sections 5 and 12 in connection with
the sale of a pain-relief product.

Status: Complaint for injunctive and other equitable relief filed 5/27/03.
Ex parte TRO with asset freeze and other equitable relief entered 5/28/03.
Stipulated order for preliminary injunction with asset transfer restrictions
and other equitable relief entered 6/12/03."


I have put a call into the attorney on this case at the FTC to find out if they know about these ads and whether the FTC considers them in violation of any standing order. I will post the FTC 's response when I get it.

 

[cbish]

I have a sad story.

About 5 years ago, a good friend of mine & I were golfing when I noticed he was wearing one. We got into quite a debate. He claimed he had terrible lower back pain that this thing relieved. We found out was his lower back pain was in July '02; Renal Cancer. He died a year ago this weekend. He left behind a wife, two children 12,10. He was 40.

 

[magicflute]

Being a magician does not automatically make you a critical thinker. Understanding the principles of "magic" does help you analyze things from a more knowledgeable perspective, but knowing tricks does not endow you with a critical mind. I know a few magicians that I would classify as "woo-woos"
Need I remind anyone of Dough Henning?

 

[Undodog]

Thanks all. I have 34 pages of specific and related articles to hand over to him tomorrow. All I can do is hope he bothers to at least browse through them.

Regarding magicians, I was always under the impression that you cant kid a kidder. Obviously, I stand corrected.

 

[Darat]

Thanks all. I have 34 pages of specific and related articles to hand over to him tomorrow. All I can do is hope he bothers to at least browse through them.

Regarding magicians, I was always under the impression that you cant kid a kidder. Obviously, I stand corrected.

But they are just like most people in that once you leave your area of expertise then you are just as open to deception etc. as anyone else.

 

[Thinking in CT]

Re: Re: Those Copper bracelets

And the Q-Ray advertisements are back in full force. I've seen numerous commercials for them in the last several weeks. Curiously (although we know why), the commercials never say anything about what it is alleged to do. Not one thing. They just assume you've already heard of them and know what they are about. The commercial merely shows sucker and sucker spouting lame testimonials about how great they are, and the spokesman merely says, "Order your Q-Ray bracelet now!" Those things are $150!

I spoke with the FTC attorney on this case. They are aware of the current ads; because the new ads don't have any actual claims (other than "I always wear mine." or, "We all think the Q-Ray is Great." etc.) the ads are not in violation of the Court's temporary injunction. The case is currently being litgated and is in discovery. The issue is not whether Q-Ray violated the law, but how much Q-Ray will have to pay in civil penalties and fees.

 

[Psi Baba]

Re: Re: Re: Those Copper bracelets

I spoke with the FTC attorney on this case. They are aware of the current ads; because the new ads don't have any actual claims (other than "I always wear mine." or, "We all think the Q-Ray is Great." etc.) the ads are not in violation of the Court's temporary injunction. The case is currently being litgated and is in discovery. The issue is not whether Q-Ray violated the law, but how much Q-Ray will have to pay in civil penalties and fees.

Thanks. I figured that was why the ads don't make any actual claims. They seem to be relying on the viewers' memories of past commercials. They know a lot of people have already heard of Q-Ray and when they see the current ads, they'll just fill in the details from their recollections of past ads. Nice way to exploit a loophole.

Errata: The line in my original post that read "sucker and sucker" obviously should have read "sucker after sucker." I'd edit it, but it's already been quoted a couple times.

 

[jcon96]

Well, it must work...I have on my copper underwear right now and...AAAAHHH!!!! Everything is green!