This Whole Debt Limit Thing

[mhaze]

I think that would be a bad idea. All those folks collecting their pension will be devastated to find out what is happening to them.

Cutting military spending when there's a war on will be very difficult indeed.

Never mind homeland security spending and so on.....


Oversimplifying the position like that doesn't help at all

I'm not. And there are no "good" outcomes, only a variety of bad ones from which to choose.

Yes, in the currency debacle in Russia in 1992, a lot of the pensions vanished. So did they (through a process of nationalization and then payment in worthless dollars) in Argentina, Venezuela, Chile, and IIRC Brazil.

It really is over-simple. You've promised a bunch of give aways equal to twice what you make. Now it's time to break your stupid promises and get real.

That's simply the required correction, there isn't any other. Yes the process of denial could continue a few years, but that's about it.

You guys simply spent all the money.

That's what's overly simple.

 

[Solitaire]

In Obama-Boehner Debt Ceiling Standoff, Who Will Blink First?

The Treasury Department said today it would release details in the coming days about one of the immediate consequences of inaction, which payments will receive priority should Congress fail to raise the debt ceiling by Tuesday.

I'll say debt payments first, mandatory spending mentioned in the constitution second, discretionary spending mentioned in the constitution third, mandatory spending not mentioned in the constitution fourth, discretionary spending not mentioned in the constitution fifth, then everything else.

P.S. No paying taxes to the IRS while they're not being funded. After all who would be there to process the payment?

 

[Eddie Dane]

Have not read the whole thread.

Would the Dollar lose value if there is no deal on the debt ceiling?

 

[BenBurch]

Have not read the whole thread.

Would the Dollar lose value if there is no deal on the debt ceiling?

Without a doubt. Yes.

 

[AlBell]

Which brings up the problem that other currencies will fare no better medium or longer term.

Gold? Silver? Place your bet because that's what it is.

 

[mhaze]

Which brings up the problem that other currencies will fare no better medium or longer term.

Gold? Silver? Place your bet because that's what it is.

Right. A lot of currencies have or are going to have similar problems.

Time to be short on currency, and shorter still on long complicated chains of promises by guys in three piece suits in skyscrapers who supposedly "care" for your money and "investments".

 

[mhaze]

Have not read the whole thread.

Would the Dollar lose value if there is no deal on the debt ceiling?

In the last 5 years, the USD has lost considerable value against the AUD and CAD, going from roughly 1 USD:1.4 to 1:1.

The value of the USD against the EURO has stayed about 1.4:1.0.

Now.

Does a loss of the AAA rating by S&P mean directly that USD currency exchange rates would suffer?

No. There are many factors at work there including "domino effects". For example, we may be seeing a collapse of the Euro (for reasons unrelated to the USD issue) at the same time these issues here occur.

 

[Minoosh]

Kestrel, disasters sell newpapers.

I worked for a newspaper for 29 years and at the end nothing was selling newspapers, maybe because we were giving it away for free.

These forums and especially the debt ceiling question attracted me because most others were such a drag to read. Everyone just attacked each other, seldom was anyone called out on accuracy, or faulty logic, etc. There are not a lot of places to find critical and civil discourse. We can all navigate straight to the news we want to hear and filter out stuff that bothers us, which I believe contributes to polarization. It's hard to get on the same page when there are so many to pick from.

I think Boehner would just as soon drop-kick the Tea Party brigade back to their spawning grounds. There are realists within the Republican ranks. By all means, raise the debt ceiling *and* send a balanced budget amendment to the states. It won't be ratified. States depend on federal funny money. I'm not saying that's a good thing.

Send out a legalize pot amendment out as well, provide for taxation, capture some of the billions now going to drug cartels each year. Boomers want their weed - across party lines.

 

[BenBurch]

I worked for a newspaper for 29 years and at the end nothing was selling newspapers, maybe because we were giving it away for free.

These forums and especially the debt ceiling question attracted me because most others were such a drag to read. Everyone just attacked each other, seldom was anyone called out on accuracy, or faulty logic, etc. There are not a lot of places to find critical and civil discourse. We can all navigate straight to the news we want to hear and filter out stuff that bothers us, which I believe contributes to polarization. It's hard to get on the same page when there are so many to pick from.

I think Boehner would just as soon drop-kick the Tea Party brigade back to their spawning grounds. There are realists within the Republican ranks. By all means, raise the debt ceiling *and* send a balanced budget amendment to the states. It won't be ratified. States depend on federal funny money. I'm not saying that's a good thing.

Send out a legalize pot amendment out as well, provide for taxation, capture some of the billions now going to drug cartels each year. Boomers want their weed - across party lines.

I agree with all that.

 

[mhaze]

....States depend on federal funny money. I'm not saying that's a good thing......

But the federal funny money has already ran out. I'm not saying that's a good thing, but it would seem the states are going to have to start depending on something else.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

So now Boehner has added a balanced budget amendment to his debt ceiling bill to appease the Tea Party House Republicans, knowing full well that such a measure has zero chance of becoming law.

 

[Bri]

The Boehner bill is officially defeated in the Senate. Reid now has the only proposal that could make it through the Senate before the deadline. But McConnell has refused to negotiate with Reid -- he says he will filibuster Reid's bill and will only negotiate directly with the president.

-Bri

 

[Minoosh]

I can see everybody's point of view on this which is inconvenient. Just git 'er done, I don't want to find out what happens if the U.S. defaults. The Republicans were right to hold Obama's feet to the fire on spending, wrong to reject any revenue increases and I hope grownups in both parties realize how queasy these games make people in the middle feel. Obviously we need to rein in spending, obviously. But if putting new tires on my credit card keeps me mobile so I can get to work and keep my job and pay my bills I'm not going to shred the thing.

Somehow I've attached a smiley. That was a mistake.

 

[Minoosh]

Arrrgh just got an email from an old boyfriend who's been trying to convert me to Libertarianism since the Carter administration and it makes a case against government borrowing because, of course, taxation is theft and immoral. Has anyone ever existed in a tax-free society? Aside from Galt's Gulch and the whole hunter-gatherer thing?

 

[Kestrel]

Arrrgh just got an email from an old boyfriend who's been trying to convert me to Libertarianism since the Carter administration and it makes a case against government borrowing because, of course, taxation is theft and immoral. Has anyone ever existed in a tax-free society? Aside from Galt's Gulch and the whole hunter-gatherer thing?

In some third world countries, there are areas were no taxes are collected. The local warlord simply takes what he wants. Europe in the middle ages worked this way. The local lord just walked into the village with a couple of hired thugs and took what he needed. Planet Money had an interesting Podcast on how this worked.

 

[Dayan81]

I used to believe that a parliamentary system that had ten or more parties was more democratic as it allows vast more views to be aired.

However, the current debacle that the GOP finds itself with the Tea Party seems to have proved the exact opposite. The GOP can do nothing without the Tea Party, which means their ability to compromise a little with the Democrats is impossible.

The GOP now only has two options: do the bidding of the Tea-Party and not compromise at all with the Democrats or abandon the Tea-Party and compromise a good deal with the Democrats.

 

[BenBurch]

Dayan81, If the GOP did ditch the Tea Baggers right now, the party might survive this thing.

 

[Dayan81]

Dayan81, If the GOP did ditch the Tea Baggers right now, the party might survive this thing.

If the GOP ditched the Tea-Party today a good debt plan would be passed tomorrow and this issue would be a thing of the past.

The GOP fears that if they abandon the Tea-Party they will lose any future elections. They are truly stuck between a rock & a hard place, and I do not know what I would do if I was in their shoes.

 

[Regnad Kcin]

You guys simply spent all the money.

That's what's overly simple.

???

 

[Mike!]

In some third world countries, there are areas were no taxes are collected. The local warlord simply takes what he wants. Europe in the middle ages worked this way. The local lord just walked into the village with a couple of hired thugs and took what he needed.

I can see us going that way sooner than later.