This this Compassionate?
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billydkid
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To be honest
To be honest, most of the Christians I run into are really nice, decent people, but I think that is because most of the people I run into are Christian and most people are decent. I just got back from my mother in law's funeral and I have to say it was hard. I had to listen to the preacher give the usual spiel of ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ along with some genuine, touching sentiment. I know that my mother in law's children found great comfort in the things the minister said about heaven and the idea that they would all come together again in heaven. Me, I felt like a hypocrit (jesus, I wish could spell, even if something is spelled right I can't tell. )
I used to be really bothered by calling hours and funerals and such - it all seemed so morbid to me. But I can see how all of this ritual goes along way toward helping people heal. I didn't want my son to go and have to see his dead Grandma, but he wanted to and actually it was good and helpful to him and did not feel morbid at all. Sometimes I do wonder if comforting lies (and let's face, almost all of us are sustained to some extend by any number of comforting lies.) aren't just as well left alone. Like that old John Lennon song - Whatever Get's You Through The Night.
I think people are entitled to their beliefs without having to fear disapproval. The problem with some flavors of religion is that implicit in the religion is idea that all of those who do not share your belief are wicked. A lot of Christianity is like that. If your religion teaches you that being an atheist is evil then there is an inevitable conflict whenever a believer in that religion encounters an atheist and I don't see how that is avoidable. My religion teaches me that you are bad so I am entitled to treat you bad - that is the problem with that brand of Christianity (the truth or falseness of the religion aside). Unfortunately, most religions are like that for devouted believers and it is the believers duty to have contempt for non-believers.
To be honest, most of the Christians I run into are really nice, decent people, but I think that is because most of the people I run into are Christian and most people are decent. I just got back from my mother in law's funeral and I have to say it was hard. I had to listen to the preacher give the usual spiel of ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ along with some genuine, touching sentiment. I know that my mother in law's children found great comfort in the things the minister said about heaven and the idea that they would all come together again in heaven. Me, I felt like a hypocrit (jesus, I wish could spell, even if something is spelled right I can't tell. )
I used to be really bothered by calling hours and funerals and such - it all seemed so morbid to me. But I can see how all of this ritual goes along way toward helping people heal. I didn't want my son to go and have to see his dead Grandma, but he wanted to and actually it was good and helpful to him and did not feel morbid at all. Sometimes I do wonder if comforting lies (and let's face, almost all of us are sustained to some extend by any number of comforting lies.) aren't just as well left alone. Like that old John Lennon song - Whatever Get's You Through The Night.
I think people are entitled to their beliefs without having to fear disapproval. The problem with some flavors of religion is that implicit in the religion is idea that all of those who do not share your belief are wicked. A lot of Christianity is like that. If your religion teaches you that being an atheist is evil then there is an inevitable conflict whenever a believer in that religion encounters an atheist and I don't see how that is avoidable. My religion teaches me that you are bad so I am entitled to treat you bad - that is the problem with that brand of Christianity (the truth or falseness of the religion aside). Unfortunately, most religions are like that for devouted believers and it is the believers duty to have contempt for non-believers.
President Bush
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RandFan said:
Re: To be honest
Actually, I agree with you. It's not the run-of-the-mill Christian, the one who does seem to understand 'love they brother' in the intended light, etc, that is the problem.
It's when somebody like Rouser2 spouts the razor-blade comment, after being shown to repeatedly be making things up, and such person goes on about how it's all holy and this and that, well, ...
It's like the calls for hatred of various people we see every day now from "Christian" people. They call themseves that, so I use the term, even though it bears little resemblance to the religion I was originally raised in.
Yes, hearing all that "life after death" stuff at a funeral is hard. I managed not to implode at my mom's, for instance, but it was hard not to say "yes, we're all sad, and for good reason, but IT IS OVER FOLKS, please, yes, that's sad and we're all sad, but let's be real here".
billydkid said:
Actually, I agree with you. It's not the run-of-the-mill Christian, the one who does seem to understand 'love they brother' in the intended light, etc, that is the problem.
It's when somebody like Rouser2 spouts the razor-blade comment, after being shown to repeatedly be making things up, and such person goes on about how it's all holy and this and that, well, ...
It's like the calls for hatred of various people we see every day now from "Christian" people. They call themseves that, so I use the term, even though it bears little resemblance to the religion I was originally raised in.
Yes, hearing all that "life after death" stuff at a funeral is hard. I managed not to implode at my mom's, for instance, but it was hard not to say "yes, we're all sad, and for good reason, but IT IS OVER FOLKS, please, yes, that's sad and we're all sad, but let's be real here".
I see how jj's logic(?) works! Just IGNORE everything contradictory to his belief of 'the religious don't use logic'. Just PRETEND there are no religous people who use logic.
When called out on it, try to change the subject (ie. yell 'out of context', 'strawman', 'stalking', etc.), do ANYTHING to avoid being held responsible for your comments.
I think it really hits home in this example.
When called out on it, try to change the subject (ie. yell 'out of context', 'strawman', 'stalking', etc.), do ANYTHING to avoid being held responsible for your comments.
I think it really hits home in this example.
jzs said:
I still want to hear more about this athiest jew that's supposed to prove whatever the hell his point is, other than his firm belief that people are out to get him because he's an athiest... as opposed to people being after you because you're a jerk.
Jocko said:
Again, you make something up. The fellow who was being jerked at was, as far as I'm aware, not atheist, he was in fact a conservative jewish person at least by appearance. If you want to know why the shouting individual was calling him an atheist, you'll have to find that person and ask them yourself, I certainly don't know.
The point, as it has been since the beginning, was that the bigot was using stereotypes, stereotypes that many people dishonestly employ against atheists.
You've shown your dishonesty again by once again making something up and trying to claim I said it.
Cease and desist.
jzs said:
I addressed your false claim regarding what I said (said includes context, which you have willfully removed from the discussion) once, in the thread that you originally dishonestly removed my comments from context. You misrepresented it there, and ignore that statement here. Your continued stalking is evidence of nothing but your own willful attack on my reputation.
Cease your stalking.
Jocko said:
Ahh, yes, now you attempt to turn the fact that you came into this discussion, ignored the subject, and now you're attempting to turn your dishonest behavior into a joke, and to do my reputation real harm by suggesting that I am somehow mentally unfit.
I require that you cease your attempts to claim that I've said something I haven't, which amount to repeated lies on your part, and your attempt at claiming that I'm alleging some conspiracy, rather than the usual, run-of-the-mill bigotry that you have often exhibited.
Cease and desist, stalker.
jzs said:
Once again, your intelletual fraud manifests.
The comment that the religious don't use logic was in a discussion of LOGIC IN RELIGION, not in mathematics, not for anything else THAN RELIGION.
Your misrepresentation is a willfull attempt to derail discussion by forcing everyone to repeat all context in every sentence, thereby making discourse impossible.
Your summary is dishonest, malicious, and fraudulent.
Cease your stalking.
jj said:
Hey, you gave the example. You finally stated that the guy wasn't even an athiest. How, precisely, am I turning your behavior in a joke?
It was a joke when I got here.
You "require"? What are you gonna do, call the internet cops on me for pointing out your own silliness? I've quoted you on multiple occasions, which you have blithely ignored.
Ooooooh... cease and desist. Them's some purty fancy words thar, city slicker. You done shook me all up.
If I'm really misrepresenting you, then kindly summarize how a jew being shouted down at a meeting proves that there are "dangerous people" pushing "hate speech" with the intention of "intimidating and harming athiets."
Maybe I just missed it.
Or maybe you did.
jj said:
Hmm, sounds vaguely bigoted if you ask me. I presume if he was wearing a yarmulke or brandishing a Torah you would have mentioned that, so I'm left wondering how he was "jewish by appearance."
Funny coming from someone claiming to be some sort of victim of "hate speech."
And you just didn't bother, I see.
Ah, the point is THEY were bigots for mistakenly labeling him an athiest, and YOU'RE not a bigot for labeling him differently.
So you're concerned because you can be sniffed out as an athiest "by appearance," hmm?
And you claim I'M turning this into a joke?
Your entire post has been reproduced and addressed, as I usually do. So please tell me where the dishonesty is. I'll even point out your hypocrisy in exchange.
Blow me.
Jocko said:
Well, you see, this is where your intellectual fraud manifests.
You don't know why I know this, so you feel free to JUST MAKE IT ALL UP.
Yes, he was wearing a yarmulke, and in fact I know the fellow, but I don't think it's my place to "evaluate" his faith.
Funny how you build defamation on top of your intellectual fraud, eh?
Exactly, because I'm speaking with some knowledge, and they are, well, what do YOU think it means to call somebody wearing a yarmulke an atheist? Without clue might be a good start, but instead, you would prefer to MAKE IT ALL UP and fabricate lies about me.
And, once again you MAKE IT ALL UP.
You are an intellectual fraud, a liar, and a stalker.
Cease and desist.
Now I'm not a big fan of dragging the thread off-topic, but your accusations interest me, jzs. Perhaps you would be so kind as to link to the original thread where the statement in question was made?jzs said:
For the sake of your credibility, I can only hope that you're not quote-mining or defending that execrable practice.