This this Compassionate?

jj

Penultimate Amazing
J
Joined
Oct 11, 2001
Messages
21,382
Rouser2 replies, to me, when I asked for some evidence for one of his/her proofs by assertion, in http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1870848305#post1870848305

Those are old tapes. Does your religion permit you to gargle razor blades?
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Does this seem like a compassionate, Christian response? Where is the "love your fellow man" in this response?

N.B. This came about because Rouser2 falsely claimed that we all would cheer when Teri Schiavo died. Not wanting to speak for anyone but myself, I have repeatedly asked him for proof of where I have indicated that I would cheer, or that I was in any way glad what had happened to the poor woman. After quite some evasions and outright lies (i.e. he tried to claim that his expressed, direct claim was rather a "prediction" at one point), and several attempts at changing the subject, this is what we've come to.
 
No, but who cares? It's Rouser. We all know he's a nut.
 
A fine example of christian compassion

100war_joa2.jpg
 
pgwenthold said:
Dude, just use the ignore feature. It works great.
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Surely you understand that his stereotypes of atheists exactly match the deliberately disparaging stereotypes circulated by many preachers, religious people, and others who are motivated to deliberately engage in hate speech in the hope of causing atheists harm, don't you?

I've heard the same kind of words out of the likes of Buchanan, and it's his kind of people who run this country.
 
jj said:
Surely you understand that his stereotypes of atheists exactly match the deliberately disparaging stereotypes circulated by many preachers, religious people, and others who are motivated to deliberately engage in hate speech in the hope of causing atheists harm, don't you?

I've heard the same kind of words out of the likes of Buchanan, and it's his kind of people who run this country.
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Wait, wait, wait... are you suggesting there's some kind of movement to encourage violence against athiests? I mean, opinions are opinions, and no one with a pair of working brain cells would silence Limbaugh or Franken just because they get hysterical from time to time.

Are there incidents of "hate crimes" (for lack of a saner term) against athiests? If so, I'm not familiar with them. Just the kind of tsk-tsking athiests just as often flick believers' way.

Not trying to pick a fight, but I'd like to know what leads you to make that statement.
 
Jocko said:
Wait, wait, wait... are you suggesting there's some kind of movement to encourage violence against athiests? I mean, opinions are opinions, and no one with a pair of working brain cells would silence Limbaugh or Franken just because they get hysterical from time to time.

Are there incidents of "hate crimes" (for lack of a saner term) against athiests? If so, I'm not familiar with them. Just the kind of tsk-tsking athiests just as often flick believers' way.

Not trying to pick a fight, but I'd like to know what leads you to make that statement.
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I haven't heard of "hate crimes", beatings and such, against atheists, but I have heard of and experienced some iffy discrimination type stuff. My last boss wouldn't have hired me if he had known I was an atheist (I made sure he never found out, though I think he suspected).

But then again, he wouldn't have hired me if he knew I was going to vote for Kerry. (He treated us to a magnificent teary speech where he said he wished his "daughters didn't have to live in a world with Democrats in it". I just nodded and said I'd pray for a Bush victory when I went to church on Sunday. Which was completely true. Next time I set foot in a church on a Sunday, I'll ask God to let Bush win the 2004 election.)
 
Jocko said:
Wait, wait, wait... are you suggesting there's some kind of movement to encourage violence against athiests? I mean, opinions are opinions, and no one with a pair of working brain cells would silence Limbaugh or Franken just because they get hysterical from time to time.
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Jocko, are you saying that if a belief about a given class is false, commonly held, etc, that there's a "movement"?

I didn't say "movement", you did. That introduction of conspiracy is uttterly specious.

Would you say that there was a "movement" to spread the idea, for instance, (NOTE THIS IS MENTIONED ONLY FOR EXAMPLE, I DO NOT ENDORSE THIS IMBICILIC SENTIMENT) that "all blacks are shiftless"?

No, I don't think you'd say that IN GENERAL it was a movement (although we all know about the Klan, etc), but that WAS a general understanding, false though it was. Many people accepted it because "everybody knows that". :(

Another such understanding that some people want to spread is "atheists have no value for life". Many people think "everybody knows that" already. More, perhaps, than you realize, given that I've heard such disparaging remarks in at least the states of Washington, Oregon, California, Idaho, Utah, Colorado, Montana, South Dakota, Indiana, Ohio, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, New York, Maryland, Virginia, and Vermont. (perhaps Mass, Conn, and RIm New Mexico, Florida, too, but I can't bring an event to mind. I've had someone else relate such an experience in Florida, but I didn't experience it personally.)

Perhaps I've just been listening for this longer.

There's really no difference between the two statements. Both statements are false, disaparaging, and attempt to falsely stereotype and disenfranchise people. Rouser2 is most likely just repeating what somebody told him/her to say, because "everybody knows its true", and it's quite justified to call him/her on that.

Let's look at the Pledge of Allegance. It, itself, conciously and willfully discriminates against atheists. If you want evidence that atheists are discriminated against, the pledge and the money in this country are proof positive that we are not generally regarded as "good citizens", just like GH Bush said on his campaign.

You are aware that our president's father pubically endorsed discrimination against atheists, aren't you? Since we've discussed this previously, I rather think the answer is "yes". If a president can be so ignorant (he was president at the time, yes?), why not lots and lots of other people?
Not trying to pick a fight, but I'd like to know what leads you to make that statement.
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Very simply, I've had people, for instance at a schoolboard meeting, get up and shout things like "shut up you commie atheist" and "atheists have no use for life, why don't they kill themselves". Yes, really. And in a town 8 miles down the road from Bell Labs, Murray Hill. A town where somebody called me out for not uttering "Under god" in the pledge of religion, err, allegance, that was expected of everyone before the meeting. And the discussion was not about religion or creationism, but about the need (or not) for new schools in a town that had 900 new housing units of 3 bedrooms or more go up in one year. (The claim was that the need for new schools was "alarmist" and that it was unfair to cancel the lease on a spare school to a right-wing religious group in order to use the school for public students... That may have brought up the religious aspect, but not from my end. In the end, they had to rebuild and reopen that school, build additions on to three others, and they're still building today, 8 years later.)

In the short run, the town refused to cope, and lots of people moved out (myself included) in order to protect their kids from this mess. In the longer run, the place is coming around, but still suffers from the reputation of not caring about its schools or its kids. I wonder, perhaps, if the town newspaper is available on the net, since it's close to 8 years since I've lived there, I am not sure. You'd find their letters to the editor quite enlightening, well, or something. What's more disgusting is that thanks to interest rates and construction costs, the people who wanted to "keep down taxes" wound up raising taxes much more by delaying than they would have if they'd had the sense to build at first hint of trouble. Yes, that was also obvious from the start. So it goes.
 
LostAngeles said:
That was your daddy, btw, not you.
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And it was Dan Quayle in a different thread, but I'm too lazy to look it up. (The one about the poor not voting for Republicans)
 
jj said:
Does this seem like a compassionate, Christian response? Where is the "love your fellow man" in this response?
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You have said that the religious (ie. all religious people) don't use logic.

(Just keep ignoring Boole, Newton, Pascal, and many others of the past and present (and future)).

What makes you believe you are on higher intellectual ground than Rouser?
 
Re: Re: This this Compassionate?

jzs said:


You have said that the religious (ie. all religious people) don't use logic.

(Just keep ignoring Boole, Newton, Pascal, and many others of the past and present (and future)).

What makes you believe you are on higher intellectual ground than Rouser?
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Cease your stalking, liar.
 
"stalking" is replying to you every once in a while? Being a "liar" is reporting what you actually said? You, as usual, are invited to report me to the mods..and get their take on your emotional, exxagerated, and misleading accusations.

Now, are you honest enough to admit there are counterexamples to your universal claim about the religious not using logic?

I predict you're not, and you'll keep dodging it by focusing on me etc.

Anything to protect cherished preconceived beliefs...
 
President Bush said:
bush.jpg
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the guy is so full of rage it's even spelled out in the picture!

(actually Drudge tried to turn that pic from last year into some sort of Democrat conspiracy to plant messages into voter's brains)
 
jj said:
Jocko, are you saying that if a belief about a given class is false, commonly held, etc, that there's a "movement"?

I didn't say "movement", you did. That introduction of conspiracy is uttterly specious.
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Sorry, when someone says, "deliberately engage in hate speech in the hope of causing atheists harm," that sounds like an organized effort to me.



Very simply, I've had people, for instance at a schoolboard meeting, get up and shout things like "shut up you commie atheist" and "atheists have no use for life, why don't they kill themselves". Yes, really. And in a town 8 miles down the road from Bell Labs, Murray Hill. A town where somebody called me out for not uttering "Under god" in the pledge of religion, err, allegance, that was expected of everyone before the meeting. And the discussion was not about religion or creationism, but about the need (or not) for new schools in a town that had 900 new housing units of 3 bedrooms or more go up in one year. (The claim was that the need for new schools was "alarmist" and that it was unfair to cancel the lease on a spare school to a right-wing religious group in order to use the school for public students... That may have brought up the religious aspect, but not from my end. In the end, they had to rebuild and reopen that school, build additions on to three others, and they're still building today, 8 years later.)

In the short run, the town refused to cope, and lots of people moved out (myself included) in order to protect their kids from this mess. In the longer run, the place is coming around, but still suffers from the reputation of not caring about its schools or its kids. I wonder, perhaps, if the town newspaper is available on the net, since it's close to 8 years since I've lived there, I am not sure. You'd find their letters to the editor quite enlightening, well, or something. What's more disgusting is that thanks to interest rates and construction costs, the people who wanted to "keep down taxes" wound up raising taxes much more by delaying than they would have if they'd had the sense to build at first hint of trouble. Yes, that was also obvious from the start. So it goes.
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So athiesm is unpopular in your neck of the woods, just as religion is not popular here. While heart-wrenching, your tale is heavy on inference. They wanted to honor a lease, and that translates to harrassment... how? Would you have felt differently if the lessee was a secular group? You would still have no school.
 
This this Compassionate?
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This this or that this? I used to think that this was but I now I believe that that is...or is this that? I get confused.
 
Originally posted by Jocko So athiesm is unpopular in your neck of the woods, just as religion is not popular here.
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Where is this enlightened area you live in? Despite that my home state (WA) is the least religious state in the country (according to surveys), and despite that I live in the heathen part of the state (near Seattle), religion is still plenty popular. And that's not counting the wiccans! ;)
 
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