This is just a magicians stunt, right?

[voidx]

If Hexum's death by blank was odd, consider the odd circumstances of Jason Lee's death while filming the Crow.

Brandon Lee just to clarify. Jason (Scott?) Lee who played Bruce Lee in his life story several years back is still alive and kicking.

 

[Dazza]

I don't think that I am easily tricked (although I could be wrong), and am aware of some of the psychological techniques Derren Brown uses. I have also been to see him perform live.

Every ounce of me says that what he did was genuine.
Stevie G.

I would love you to be right about this.

Maybe we should track down the volunteer - I'm sure he's an online sort of guy - and see if he can shed any light on it.

 

[Ipecac]

People. It was a trick. At no time was this guy's life in danger. There are so many possibilities for trickery, how can you seriously believe for even a minute that he was in real danger?

That doesn't mean it wasn't a good show, tense and exciting. But it was a trick.

 

[Archangel]

People. It was a trick. At no time was this guy's life in danger. There are so many possibilities for trickery, how can you seriously believe for even a minute that he was in real danger?

That would be because, whenever someone is using a gun with blanks or "real" ammunition there is a danger.
As someone pointed out above Brandon Lee died during the filming of The Crow from a "blank", where there should have been no danger to his life.

 

[The Mighty Thor]

BBC Online has an article about Derren Brown and 'mindreading'. I think Derren is a very impressive performer and has that 'creepy' look about him. He is a good magician and gives the impression that some of his tricks are 'close to the edge'.

He's much more entertaining than Blaine.

I do not, however, consider this latest stunt to be worthy of him. Looks like he is cashing-in on the current Blaine boredom factor by doing something supposedly 'spectacular'.

But I suppose publicity is the name of the game for all these guys.

From the BBC Article:

Professor Chris French, of London's Goldsmith's college - a specialist in investigating paranormal beliefs and "experiences" - says mind-reading is the stuff of fantasy.

"If Derren Brown really has successfully developed techniques to discern the contents of people's minds in the way that he claims, he has single-handedly achieved more than the collective attempts of psychologists over many decades."

He says the stunt may have more in common with the "cold reading" techniques typically associated with psychics and mediums.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/3169044.stm

malc

 

[mummymonkey]

That would be because, whenever someone is using a gun with blanks or "real" ammunition there is a danger.

There was no real ammunition involved, and no blanks either. At no time was his life in danger. It was a trick. He didn't fire a gun, he didn't play Russian roulette and he didn't read anybody's mind or sub-consciously suggest anything to anybody.

 

[Drooper]

BBC Online has an article about Derren Brown and 'mindreading'. I think Derren is a very impressive performer and has that 'creepy' look about him. He is a good magician and gives the impression that some of his tricks are 'close to the edge'.

He's much more entertaining than Blaine.

I do not, however, consider this latest stunt to be worthy of him. Looks like he is cashing-in on the current Blaine boredom factor by doing something supposedly 'spectacular'.

But I suppose publicity is the name of the game for all these guys.

From the BBC Article:



http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/3169044.stm

malc

There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding about Derren Brown. He has never claimed to be able to "discern peoples' minds", or use any woo woo nonsense. What he does say is that he uses some of the more predictable behaviour of people in some of his work. Some of it seems to have some psychological underpinning.

Some of the better examples I've seen that seem to support this include the trick where he persuades a cashier to pay out on a losing betting slip, or the elaborate stunt where he subconsiously plants images and words into the minds of two advertising creatives.

Beyond that he obviously uses a range of traditional magician's techniques as well. But that is no secret.

 

[AlienX]

Yeah I think it's higly likely that there was a safety net involved.
To be fair to Derren ... who wouldn't. Basically if you were the person who loaded the gun and Derren selected the loaded chamber to begin with (he said aloud that he thought chamber 3 was safe) you would stop it - I know I would.

Once selected there is still an element of danger - especially if its a blank as a blank can kill at close range especially to the head.

Best thing was it was Derren Brown doing it and he does similar things that are not magic tricks in the normal sense. If it was Blaine doing the same thing there would be ZERO audience fear because you know 100% it's a standard magical trick to begin with. With Brown there was the possibility that it was real and hence terrifying to watch.

Blaine is a good magician but his latest "stunts" are plain garbage at least this stunt was exciting ;-)

AX

 

[Drooper]

Yeah I think it's higly likely that there was a safety net involved.
To be fair to Derren ... who wouldn't. Basically if you were the person who loaded the gun and Derren selected the loaded chamber to begin with (he said aloud that he thought chamber 3 was safe) you would stop it - I know I would.

I didn't see the show, but did Brown announce a chamber in front of the "loader" and have the opportunity to observe his reaction?

 

[Liamo]

I didn't see the show, but did Brown announce a chamber in front of the "loader" and have the opportunity to observe his reaction?

Here's the relevant bit from the transcript:

[..] OK. Behind me is the bullet proof glass, behind that's a chair, you're going to sit in that chair for your own safety when I tell you to. The chair is bolted to the floor. You must not move out of the chair.

You must stay in the chair.

Alright? Whatever happens you don't move, and whatever happens you do not try and stop me. Don't call out. Don't try and stop it.

Alright? If I'm not a hundred percent confident, I won't do it, I won't pull the trigger.

(OK)

Does that make sense?

(Yes)

Right, you go and sit in the chair.

(James goes to chair)

There are ear protectors on your chair, just put them on your lap for now, you won't need them quite yet.

You sat in the chair?

(Yup)

Can you see me and the gun?

(Yes I can)

James, I'm going to ask you in a moment to count from one to six, I'm only going to ask you to do this once. You need to count clearly and slowly and loudly so I can hear you. From one to six.

Listen - very important as you count, don't give me any clues, don't try and help me, if you try and help me James it will confuse me, and it's really important I'm not confused. Does that make

sense?

(Yes, yeah it does).

Alright, when I say go, just take a little while, just take a moment just to take a breath and relax and then count from one to six, loudly, clearly and slowly.

Take a breath first.

Go.

(1-2-3-4-5-6)

OK, thankyou. I'm going to set the gun to a chamber that I feel is safe, that's number er that's number three. Number 3 I feel is safe. Each time that I pull the trigger the chamber will rotate one

round, so I'm going to start by firing number three which I feel is safe, and then four then five then six and then one and then two. Number three I feel is safe. James will you put your ear defenders on.

Number three I feel is safe.

[ DB puts gun to head and fires trigger. Nothing happens. ]
[...]


So no, he could not observe the loader's reaction.

Liam

 

[Ipecac]

The police have revealed it was a trick ("hoax" is the word used).

Gun Hoax

Since firing a blank next to your head could still be lethal, I'm certain he knew all along in which chamber the bullet was placed. Or the barrel of the gun was solid so nothing could come out of it. He was never in any danger.

 

[Rolfe]

I can't even remember which channel I was watching, but one of the news announcers (could have been Channel 4 actually) said on last night's main news bulletin that the policeman involved had revealed that there was no live ammunition involved.

Did anyone else take more note of the detail of that news item than I did?

Rolfe.

 

[JamesM]

the elaborate stunt where he subconsiously plants images and words into the minds of two advertising creatives.

I do wonder if that's really how it worked. I've seen plenty of magicians do a trick like that. Y'know, getting someone to draw a picture and then them doing a copy despite being blindfolded or pointing someone to an envelope under their chair with the copy in or whatever. Something along those lines, anyway.

Beyond that he obviously uses a range of traditional magician's techniques as well. But that is no secret.

I think that the objection is, as Simon Singh pointed out in his Telegraph article, that Brown does claim not to do 'tricks'. That is dishonest. I know magicians make their livings from deceiving people, but there's a difference between a woman not really being sawn in two, and David Blaine doing a harness levitation. One is part of the fun, the other breaks the contract between the magician and the audience.

That said, I do like Brownie's programmes.

 

[Drooper]

I do wonder if that's really how it worked. I've seen plenty of magicians do a trick like that. Y'know, getting someone to draw a picture and then them doing a copy despite being blindfolded or pointing someone to an envelope under their chair with the copy in or whatever. Something along those lines, anyway.

The difference with Brown's trick was that the "set up" was documented. They took footage of the two stooges' taxi ride to the meeting, including all the visual cues that were subsequently regurgitated.

 

[JamesM]

The difference with Brown's trick was that the "set up" was documented. They took footage of the two stooges' taxi ride to the meeting, including all the visual cues that were subsequently regurgitated.

Yeah, I know. But that doesn't mean that was how it really was done. It could have been misdirection - I suspect that research showing that human beings are able to take in and reproduce so many specific motifs, all subconsciously, would be extremely famous.

I could, of course, be entirely wrong. It's just my opinion. But as a further example, remember the trick where he 'hypnotises' the boxer so he can no longer lift the girl he efforlessly raised moments before? That's not how the trick was accomplished. Brown just made the girl stand a little further away.

 

[fsol]

If you don't want to be decieved then don't watch a magician's show. It's quite simple really. I don't understand what all the fuss is about. "Magician does magic trick, shocker!" And there was me thinking David Copperfield really could fly. Isn't the patter a legitimate part of the performance? When did patter become cause for shouting fraud at people.

 

[Humphreys]

If you don't want to be decieved then don't watch a magician's show. It's quite simple really. I don't understand what all the fuss is about. "Magician does magic trick, shocker!" And there was me thinking David Copperfield really could fly. Isn't the patter a legitimate part of the performance? When did patter become cause for shouting fraud at people.

There is a difference between a magician and a fraud. David Copperfield didn't claim to be able fly, he claimed to be an illusionist.

Derren Brown is making money by claiming to be a "thought reader", not a magician or trickster. Magicians aren't in the spotlight anymore, so we have people - magicians - making themselves out to be something the aren't (frauds).

Derren Brown is deceiving in the same way David Blaine was deceiving when he did his televised levitation trick. Camera tricks should also have no place in magic acts.

Also, if David Blaine is actually getting some food - somehow - while inside his glass box, he is also being fraudulent. He is suddenly no better than the breatharians.

Do you see the difference?

 

[JamesM]

If you don't want to be decieved then don't watch a magician's show. It's quite simple really. I don't understand what all the fuss is about. "Magician does magic trick, shocker!" And there was me thinking David Copperfield really could fly. Isn't the patter a legitimate part of the performance? When did patter become cause for shouting fraud at people.

Say I claimed to be a mentalist, using psychology to read people's minds. I then go off and seem to uncover astonishing truths from members of the public.

But actually, I'd just hired a load of actors and we performed from a script.

Is that something worthy of the name magic? Do you not feel even a little bit cheated? Can you see any qualitative difference between this and a David Copperfield illusion?

I'm not suggesting that Derren Brown does any of his tricks in that manner, by the way. And I do recognise that magician's tricks often rely on stooges pretending to be volunteers. But it's the same way that some people feel that Uri Geller and John Edward are using simple tricks and their pretending it to be something else is dishonest.

EDIT: Oops, Humphreys beat me to it.

 

[fsol]

Derren Brown calls himself a "psychological illusionist." It seems pretty clear cut to me. He does not call himself a psychic or a medium. So I guess he doesn't really compare to JE or Gellar.

From his site.

Call it what you like. Derren Brown reads minds but claims no psychic power.

“I began my career as a magician but slowly left behind the props and sleight-of-hand to work with the psychological techniques that are the real stuff of magic. I have to learn people's patterns, step inside their heads. Then I can play.”

The result is a powerful, provocative and thrilling new form of entertainment.

It seems to me that playing with peoples heads can mean misdirecting his audience. I thought that *was* the real stuff of magic. I thought that was the whole point. Making someone believe that an extraordinary thing happened, while all along something more mundane did.

I really can't see the problem.

 

[RonSceptic]

Other points in Derren's favour are the fact that he debunks the 'psychic powers' approach on his own show, and that he is also quite involved in the 'Psychic Secrets Revealed' show on Channel 5 at 8.30pm on Fridays. (An Excellent Show- don't miss it!)

For well known perfromers to be giving TV audiences the message that no psychic ability is involved in these stunts has to be a good thing.

If Derren was dishonest enough to pretend to be psychic he would leave JE and his ilk in the dust.