Moderated Thermite: Was it there or not?

bill smith said:
'' Suppse for a moment that you were Steven Jones and his team ? Then further suppose that you sent your samples off to Princeton or somewhere equally prestigeous for testing ?

But then you stop and think whether a place like Princeton might not be part of the intelligentsia...the American elite ? It's undeniably true that they would be very vulnerable to a call, say from the Whitehouse asking for a favour wouldn't you say ?

Jones would abslutely NOT need Princeton University saying that they had found no unreacted thermite in the WTC dust.

Are you getting the point ? ''
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In other words, Jones doesn't seek any sort of credible peer-review or corroboration because every serious scientist in the world is in on the conspiracy.

And so instead he seeks out the precious few who are not under the influence of the White House...and those people just happen to be his friends and journals that publish computer-generated gibberish.

Is that seriously your best explanation, bill?

Like, seriously? :eek:
 
bill smith said:
You should read bck a few pages Twinstead. For your convenience I am reposting post #308 here.


'' Suppse for a moment that you were Steven Jones and his team ? Then further suppose that you sent your samples off to Princeton or somewhere equally prestigeous for testing ?

But then you stop and think whether a place like Princeton might not be part of the intelligentsia...the American elite ? It's undeniably true that they would be very vulnerable to a call, say from the Whitehouse asking for a favour wouldn't you say ?

Jones would abslutely NOT need Princeton University saying that they had found no unreacted thermite in the WTC dust.

Are you getting the point ? ''
Click to expand...

Ah, so the Obama Administration is in on it too? No suprise. Pretty much everybody is in on it. Except twoofers (the ones that aren't disinfo that is).

Anyways, why don't they send it to a respected university in Europe or Asia or the Middle East? Oops, I'm sorry, I forgot. The NWO is all powerful, they can coerce anybody to do anything.
 
Dave Rogers said:
I agree that it makes zero sense for Jones to behave the way he does. However, at that point our reasoning diverges. You assume that Jones's behaviour is somehow required to make sense, and therefore proclaim him a world authority who has an understanding greater than that of lesser mortals. I note that he does, indeed, publish work that is patently, discernibly and embarrassingly wrong, that he is capable of discerning that it is wrong, and that he does not do so. From this I conclude that his mental state is not entirely consistent with that of a sane person. At that point I can't make any further deductions; a clinical psychologist might make a little more headway.



Actually, no. All this vanity publishing and web-based assertion by Jones is what is really meaningless, and it will be ignored by the scientific and engineering establishments other than as a source of light amusement because it is so very obviously fatally flawed. As a result, the conversation will never get going; there is no rational conversation to be had.



Dave
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Can we assume from this statement of yours Dave that you are saying that Steven Jones is insane ? Remember there will be no going back on this.

''...I conclude that his mental state is not entirely consistent with that of a sane person.''

You may call Bentam anything you like Dave but as far as I am aware they are still reviewing scientific papers and publishing them just as they did with the Jones thermite paper. Are you saying that any scientist who has had papers published there should be aware that his paper is now suspect ? I am sure Bentham will be reading your answer with keen anticipation..
 
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bill smith said:
All the bitching and backbiting from the jref is meaninglss until Jones is proven wrong by a credible body like Princeton- and when that happens the conversation will really get going.
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bill smith said:
But then you stop and think whether a place like Princeton might not be part of the intelligentsia...the American elite ? It's undeniably true that they would be very vulnerable to a call, say from the Whitehouse asking for a favour wouldn't you say ?

Jones would abslutely NOT need Princeton University saying that they had found no unreacted thermite in the WTC dust.

Are you getting the point ? ''
Click to expand...

Which one of your two diametrically opposed points are you asking people to get? That only a refutation from Princeton (why in FSM's name you've chosen Princeton to obsess over, I hardly dare guess; any respectable engineering department would do) will lead to a proper scientific debate, or that a refutation from Princeton will be meaningless because they will then by definition be part of the conspiracy?

I could also comment on your pre-emptive invocation of the inflationary model; now, even people who might oppose the conspiracy theory at some time in the future are held to be part of the conspiracy. Amusing.

Dave
 
bill smith said:
You should read bck a few pages Twinstead. For your convenience I am reposting post #308 here.


'' Suppse for a moment that you were Steven Jones and his team ? Then further suppose that you sent your samples off to Princeton or somewhere equally prestigeous for testing ?

But then you stop and think whether a place like Princeton might not be part of the intelligentsia...the American elite ? It's undeniably true that they would be very vulnerable to a call, say from the Whitehouse asking for a favour wouldn't you say ?

Jones would abslutely NOT need Princeton University saying that they had found no unreacted thermite in the WTC dust.

Are you getting the point ? ''
Click to expand...


Oh yes, I get your point. And instead of replying, I'll see your post #308 and raise you post #312:

Honestly, Bill Smith, saying that it's useless to supply a sample of the thermite to a major American university, because those universities will most likely change any positive results as a favor to the White House, is highly irrational, paranoid, and completely baseless.

Bush was NO friend of the major liberal universities and I think they would JUMP at the chance to be part of a major criminal case against Bush and Cheney.

Bill Smith, all you have done is found a pathetic yet convenient excuse for NOT submitting the thermite sample for independent testing.

how about sending it to an independent engineering or chemistry firm? or would the NWO have gotten to them too????????

Seriously, Bill Smith. Seriously. Ya need to let this go.
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CHF said:
In other words, Jones doesn't seek any sort of credible peer-review or corroboration because every serious scientist in the world is in on the conspiracy.

And so instead he seeks out the precious few who are not under the influence of the White House...and those people just happen to be his friends and journals that publish computer-generated gibberish.

Is that seriously your best explanation, bill?

Like, seriously? :eek:
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The American government is the chief suspect in the crime of 9/11. I'm sure you are aware that they have tremendous influence aand power over every aspect of American life.

Universities rely on funding and cooperation from governments. Many laboratories and other such can be leaned on with ease. It takes a great deal of moral courage to go up against the machine. Need I say more ?

We would like it better if Princeton were the ones to announce a testing of the dust samples in negotiation with Steven Jones. Surely this would not pose a problem ?
 
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For the record, Steven Jones himself hasn't made the stupid excuse that Bill Smith just presented on his behalf.

I suppose this is a live demonstration of the kind of devotion that Jones has amongst his followers.

To folks like poor ol' Bill here Jones' conclusions are so self-evident that anyone who opposes them (or even might oppose them) is by definition part of the conspiracy.

In other words, Jones' work is non-falsifiable. At this point there's nothing further to discuss except which medication is right for Bill.

Bill Smith said:
The American government is the chief suspect in the crime of 9/11. I'm sure you are aware that they have tremendous influence aand power over every aspect of American life.
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Well then go outside of America!!!!

Seriously Bill, this is just sad.
 
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bill smith said:
Can we assume from this statement of yours Dave that you are saying that Steven Jones is insane ? Remember there will be no going back on this.

''...I conclude that his mental state is not entirely consistent with that of a sane person.''

You may call Bentam anything you like Dave but as far as I am aware they are still reviewing scientific papers and publishing them just as they did with the Jones themite paper. Are you saying that any scientist who has had papers published there should be aware that his paper is now suspect ? I am sure Bentham will be reading your answer with keen anticipation..
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Forgive me for criticising such an elegantly constructed strawman, but:
(a) I didn't say Steven Jones is insane; there are plenty of shades of grey between totally sane and utterly barking mad, otherwise there could be no 9/11 truth movement. Certain aspects of his behaviour are not rational.
(b) As you're well aware, I didn't say that publishing in a Bentham journal was evidence of insanity. However, given the scandals that have surrounded the Bentham open journals over the past few months, I would agree with you in one sense; any scientist who has had work published in a Bentham journal should now be aware that the quality of peer review carried out on that work is now very highly suspect, and anyone who can come to any other conclusion simply has not been paying attention.

And I'm sure Bentham won't be reading my answer. Why should they find time to read an anonymous Internet forum post, when they clearly don't even have time to read their own submissions?

Dave
 
bill smith said:
The American government is the chief suspect in the crime of 9/11. I'm sure you are aware that they have tremendous influence aand power over every aspect of American life.

Universities rely on funding and cooperation from governments. Many laboratories and other such can be leaned on with ease. It takes a great deal of moral courage to go up against the machine. Need I say more ?

We would like it better if Princeton were the ones to announce a testing of the dust samples in negotiation with Steven Jones. Surely this would not pose a problem ?
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Why don't they send it for testing to a university in another country, say Switzerland for example? Or is your paranoia so extreme that you think the American government controls every university in the world?
 
Dave Rogers said:
Which one of your two diametrically opposed points are you asking people to get? That only a refutation from Princeton (why in FSM's name you've chosen Princeton to obsess over, I hardly dare guess; any respectable engineering department would do) will lead to a proper scientific debate, or that a refutation from Princeton will be meaningless because they will then by definition be part of the conspiracy?

I could also comment on your pre-emptive invocation of the inflationary model; now, even people who might oppose the conspiracy theory at some time in the future are held to be part of the conspiracy. Amusing.

Dave
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Well it's obvious that we would prefer to bring down the biggest dog that we can get. Princeton seems to be a fair choice though if there is a bigger one out there then that would of course be preferable.
 
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bill smith said:
We would like it better if Princeton were the ones to announce a testing of the dust samples in negotiation with Steven Jones. Surely this would not pose a problem ?
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Your delusions of grandeur are showing again, bill. WE? So you are the truth movement's spokesman now? Jesus next you'll be calling for a press conference on the White House lawn. LOL
 
Incidentally Bill, Steven Jones himself is American. So is DR Griffin, Richard Gage etc.

These towering intellectuals apparently aren't controlled by the White House. So why do you assume everyone else is?

And how would you or Jones even know which prospective peer-reviewer is "controlled" unless a submission was actually made?
 
dtugg said:
Why don't they send it for testing to a university in another country, say Switzerland for example? Or is your paranoia so extreme that you think the American government controls every university in the world?
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Are you going to pretend that theAmerican Government does not exert considerable influence all oover the world ? Especially with the intelligentsia of the various countries ?
 
bill smith said:
Are you going to pretend that theAmerican Government does not exert considerable influence all oover the world ? Especially with the intelligentsia of the various countries ?
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Oh, so the answer is "yes." Your paranoia is so extreme that you think that the the US Government controls every University in the world. bs, in all seriousness you need help. I'm sure there are medications that can mitigate the effects of your condition(s).
 
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