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There's no such thing as excessive force in America

Arcade22

Philosopher
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The confrontation between Yourse, who is black, and the white officer, Travis Cole — captured in body cameras — started out as a cordial conversation, but it escalated after only a few minutes. The June incident resulted in an internal affairs investigation by the Greensboro Police Department, which found that Cole used excessive force on Yourse and violated other agency rules when he punched and violently arrested the 36-year-old man, who had not committed a crime.

Last August, two months after the incident, Cole resigned. The other officer involved in the incident, Officer C.N. Jackson, left her post last week, according to media reports.

...

Chief Assistant District Attorney Howard Neumann did not return a call from The Post on Monday, but he told the Greensboro News & Record last week that Cole did not commit a crime. Law enforcement officers are entitled to use whatever amount of force they deemed necessary to arrest someone they believed committed a crime, Neumann told the paper.

“To charge him would be a violation of my role as a prosecutor,” Neumann said.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...esting-black-man-sitting-on-his-mothers-porch

So i guess if they shot him on sight, simply to make it easy to arrest him, it would've been perfectly legal since one is apparently not allowed to second guess police officers use of force.
 
Yes, but the officer is still accountable for other offenses which show prosecution for essentially the same crime:

An internal affairs investigation, which was completed on Aug. 30, found that Cole violated the Greensboro Police Department’s rules on use of force, courtesy toward the public, arrest, search and seizure, and compliance to laws and regulations.
 
Yes, but the officer is still accountable for other offenses which show prosecution for essentially the same crime:

Those are policy violations not criminal charges though. It is the same as any employer might take when one violates their policies.
 
Those are policy violations not criminal charges though. It is the same as any employer might take when one violates their policies.

True, the internal investigation is not a prosecution. The internal also found Cole was in violation of 'compliance to laws and regulations', which may indicate an ability to prosecute for excessive force by another statute.
 
Well, that was interesting. Police investigate a call about a man acting suspiciously, possibly seeking entry to a house in an area where there have been several recent burglaries. They find a man at the scene but he says it is his mother's house, that he lives there and he is waiting for her because he doesn't have a key. The female officer, C.N. Jackson, is polite and pleasant, the man is polite and helpful. He offers to get his mother on the phone and answers the officers questions. He admits he has been in prison before. He calls his mother but gets voicemail. He tells the officers the neighbours in the surrounding houses all know him - he has lived there for 10 years. He shows ID and his surname, Yourse, matches the homeowners name.

The male officer, Travis Cole, begins needling him, challenging his pronunciation of his name, implying that his cooperation is suspicious, asking if he has "papers" (in context apparently outstanding warrants), saying there is no reason for the man to be trying to verify his story and strongly implying the fact he is doing so is itself suspicious. Yourse, beginning to be frustrated, explains that he feels the need to prove he is telling the truth because the Cole doesn't seem to believe him. Cole feigns shock and surprise, saying "No!" At this point Yourse, who is sitting on the front porch of the house excuses himself and calls someone on his mobile phone. He asks the person on the other end to come over to his Mom's house as "the police are here and they're harrassing me."

Cole instantly snatches the phone out of Yourse's hand snarling: "OK, off the phone!"

"Hey, man you can't grab my phone like that!" exclaims Yourse in apparent disbelief.

Cole grabs the seated Yourse and begins to manhandle him. "Hey get off me man!" Yourse cries. The bodycam captures Cole's reflection in the front door as he attempts to grab Yourse's hand.
Cole shouts:"Put your hands - I'll tell you once - Get up, put your hands..."
Simultaneously Yourse shouts: "What you doing? That's my phone, I can't be on my phone? What you doing?

Yourse remains seated during the couple of seconds this exchange takes, apparently trying to lean away from Cole. Cole begins punching him and forces him to the ground. Jackson assists in handcuffing him and then radios in. Yourse lies on the ground asking why he was attacked when he was trying to cooperate and saying it was wrong to be punched when he wasn't resisting. Cole says he was resisting the whole time. They have a long converstion in which Cole says that Yourse cannot call other people and ask them to come around while speaking to officers. Yourse asks several times why not. Cole says it is an officer safety issue. He repeatedly says that what has just transpired is Yourse's fault and describes it as a fight. Yourse seems incredulous and then angry.

"When was I fighting you? I was sitting down the whole time!" He asks if he had gotten up and says that he was punched in the eye while not resisting. He begins to shout that he has not done anything wrong and had been trying to cooperate.

Nobody so far has even mentioned the word "arrest" and the physical confrontation was initiated by Officer Cole before any verbal commands were given. Yourse's physical reaction of freezing up looks much more like shocked instinct rather than deliberate noncompliance.

My subjective interpretation of the video is that Officer Cole decided that Dejuan Yourse was gulity of something and and was seeking to provoke an intemperate response from him to justify arresting him. He decided that the phone call was all he needed. After Yourse is cuffed he seems to take it as read that Yourse should have known the phone call would initiate a violent takedown. He repeatedly says it was necessary to keep punching Yourse because of his "resistance".

He never told Yourse he was arresting him, never gave him any instruction before attacking him and never gave him the physical option of "complying" before punching him.

Yourse was charged with "Assault on a government official" and "Resisting arrest". These charges were later dropped.
 
True, the internal investigation is not a prosecution. The internal also found Cole was in violation of 'compliance to laws and regulations', which may indicate an ability to prosecute for excessive force by another statute.

I read that as being that he violated an internal policy that officers should comply with laws and regulations. I find it extremely worrying that a Police Department should find it necessary to have such a policy, as it suggests that police officers might not have to comply with the law if the policy did not exist. And I suspect that, so long as the DA's office has decided and publicly stated that it will not prosecute any police officer for excessive force related to an arrest whatever the circumstances, that any ability to prosecute will be irrelevant where the will to do so clearly doesn't exist.

Dave
 
An internal affairs investigation, which was completed on Aug. 30, found that Cole violated the Greensboro Police Department’s rules on use of force, courtesy toward the public, arrest, search and seizure, and compliance to laws and regulations.
Shouldn't the state have clear and concise laws governing police conduct (use of force, courtesy toward the public, arrest, search and seizure, etc)? Leaving it up to localities, cities, counties isn't working.
 
True, the internal investigation is not a prosecution. The internal also found Cole was in violation of 'compliance to laws and regulations', which may indicate an ability to prosecute for excessive force by another statute.

Not when the prosecutor already decided to to file charges. The police can not file charges even if they want to. He loses his job and goes to work somewhere else at most. That is how these things work.
 
...
The male officer, Travis Cole, begins needling him, challenging his pronunciation of his name, implying that his cooperation is suspicious, asking if he has "papers" (in context apparently outstanding warrants), saying there is no reason for the man to be trying to verify his story and strongly implying the fact he is doing so is itself suspicious...

Okay, WTAF?

Not cooperating is well-known to be considered suspicious, and now cooperating is also suspicious? What the hell do they want from people if every encounter with an officer could result in violence no matter what the citizen does?
 
Okay, WTAF?

Not cooperating is well-known to be considered suspicious, and now cooperating is also suspicious? What the hell do they want from people if every encounter with an officer could result in violence no matter what the citizen does?
Yep. It's suspicious to not cooperate and suspicious to cooperate. When you're held for a traffic stop, and asked to produce papers, it's suspicious if you don't get them, and if you try to get them you're shot because the police officer suddenly thinks you're reaching for a gun.

I read first Carnivore's write-up and then viewed the video. It's outrageous. I'd like to add to his account that first the female officer, Jackson, approaches him alone, and reacts to every answer Yourse gives with a very upbeat "Okay". She sounds fully satisfied with his explanation as she goes back to the cruiser, but then the two of them decide to come back. I can't quite make out what they're discussing while standing at the cruiser, but I get the distinct impression from this behavior that Cole thinks he hasn't filled the personal goal he had set for that day in number of (black) citizens he'd harass and humiliate.

As to race: maybe Cole isn't a racist, but it sure looks like it. And that's what matters most in the public eye.

And even with this obvious case, you see the blue wall in action. From the WaPo article:
During a special meeting by the Greensboro City Council on Sept. 26, Mayor Nancy Vaughn called Cole’s actions “ugly,” “brutal” and “completely unnecessary.”
I think we can all agree with that. But then:
During the City Council meeting, Greensboro Police Chief Wayne Scott said the charges were questionable.
Of all the adjectives he could have chosen, he chose "questionable". That implies there's at least some merit in the charges. No, Mr. Scott, the charges are not questionable. They're false. They're made up. They're pulled out of thin air. They're nonsense. They're ludicrous. They're preposterous. Et cetera. But they're not "questionable".

Also, it's not the police that has attempted to end Cole's career:
City officials also recommended to a state commission to revoke Cole’s law enforcement certification indefinitely. If that happens, he will no longer be able to be a law enforcement officer.
City officials did that, not the police chief. Not that I believe the latter to be true - there are too many small town police forces in the USA that don't have the resources to check certifications, and it's NC only apparently anyway - but it will certainly make it harder on Cole to find another job at the police.

As to ADA Neumann, let's review what he said:
Chief Assistant District Attorney Howard Neumann did not return a call from The Post on Monday, but he told the Greensboro News & Record last week that Cole did not commit a crime. Law enforcement officers are entitled to use whatever amount of force they deemed necessary to arrest someone they believed committed a crime, Neumann told the paper.
Highlighting mine. He erects a huge strawman here. No reasonable person in the place of Cole could have believed that Yourse had committed a crime. I believe that Cole didn't believe that either at the time.

Really, it's ludicrous that Cole isn't prosecuted for assault, battery, unlawful deprivation of liberty and (attempted) theft; and Jackson as accessory to all those crimes.

Phew, I made it to the end of this post without even once calling Cole a "fascist pig".
 
what on earth is going on over there?
don't they realise in the rest if the developed world, cops don't generally behave like that?
shakes head....
 
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...esting-black-man-sitting-on-his-mothers-porch

So i guess if they shot him on sight, simply to make it easy to arrest him, it would've been perfectly legal since one is apparently not allowed to second guess police officers use of force.
That quote is right, but not complete. Yes, police officers can use any amount of force to effect an arrest -- up to and including death -- but it has to be measured against the amount and type of resistance to that arrest; so there certainly are laws against criminal use of excessive force.

I find it sickening myself.
 
Yeah, heard of this one a couple of days ago.

No shock, that's how things go far too often.
 
Okay, WTAF?

Not cooperating is well-known to be considered suspicious, and now cooperating is also suspicious? What the hell do they want from people if every encounter with an officer could result in violence no matter what the citizen does?

Well he was black. that's suspicious. So cooperating/not cooperating /looking shifty / being alive and breathing all that is suspicious (or read : anything and everything can be used as justification of "being suspicious" being hey he is black so he almost certainly did something wrong).
 
The triggering incident was the phone call - Dejuan Yourse asked somebody to come over to his Mother's house because the police were harassing him. Watching the video I took that to mean he wanted someone to turn up with no more direction than "My Mom's house" as that on it's own would help corroborate his story. I also suspected that Yourse wanted a witness as Cole became more confrontational and unreasonable.

I could be wrong about that however. Cole seemed to take it as an immediate threat. Could one of the American cops on the forum comment on this?
 
This country is really coming unglued. I'm almost surprised there's been no loud talk of secession lately, and at times it begins to sound like a tolerable idea.

I wish we could get out of here. This is basically what I feared would happen if we went down the Reagan path back in 1980. Everything has become more and more dysfunctional and we've reached the tipping point. It's hard to feel much hope.
 

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