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There Will be Blood: Boston's Straight Pride Parade.

I can't be bothered, the jerks fixated on the One True Definition of Nazi have ruined this thread. I suggest all others abandon the thread and let the miscreants invade Russia in winter on their own.

Well it is like trying to talk about racism with the same people, if they are not wearing a klan suit with a burning cross and screaming racial epithets while shooting Emmett Tills memorial it isn't racism.
 
I can't be bothered, the jerks fixated on the One True Definition of Nazi have ruined this thread. I suggest all others abandon the thread and let the miscreants invade Russia in winter on their own.

Ruined it from what? This thread would be dead in the water if it wasn't for that conversation. Outside of the judge getting his ass handed to him by the state courts, there's nothing left to talk about it.

Way to stick it to everyone who doesn't view conversation the same as you though. That'll teach everyone to speak to each other on an online forum. Stupid jerks.
 
There was a link to a podcast that documented that very requirement. That you either refuse to listen to it, refuse to acknowledge it, or refuse to provide a solid argument against isn't everyone else's problem. You've then changed it to mean that people in power have to believe that (which their is in King, and even Trump to some level). Now I'm not sure where this argument has gone to as it seems to grow legs sporadically.

What are your requirements now?

Read this three times, and still have no idea what you are talking about.

I don't normally dedicate time to random podcasts. If you have an argument, present it. You know full and well that pointing elsewhere is not presenting your own argument.

You say I changed my argument to 'people in power have to believe that...' Hold up : give me a quote on that one. I never said people in power have to believe anything.

You think my argument has 'grown legs' because you are insisting that I am saying things that I am not. You are projecting this ' wanting to versus being able to' argument on me. Dann thinks I'm saying they don't understand what National Socialism is. Darat is just making things up.

Please: quote where I say people in power have to believe something. If you predictably handwave or flounce, I'll take that as the sum of your argument
 
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Read this three times, and still have no idea what you are talking about.

I don't normally dedicate time to random podcasts. If you have an argument, present it. You know full and we'll that pointing elsewhere is not presenting your own argument.

You say I changed my argument to 'people in power have to believe that...' Hold up : give me a quote on that one. I never said people in powder have to believe anything.

You think my argument has 'grown legs' because you are insisting that I am saying things that I am not. You are projecting this ' wanting to versus being able go's argument on me. Dann thinks Ian saying they don't understand what National Socialism is. Darat is just making things up.

Please: quote where I say people in power have to believe something. If you predictably hardware or flounce, I'll take that as the sum of your argument

No. I'm not wasting my time digging through all your quotes. Your argument has been that the current day Nazi's don't have any power, therefor they aren't really Nazi's, they're inconsequential. Which isn't true.

For the record, what is the actual argument you're making here? It sucks we have to go through this but now after 5ish pages, I have no idea anymore what your argument is, so we'll start here. In no uncertain terms, clearly lay out for me what your argument is and I'll be more than happy to reply.
 
No. I'm not wasting my time digging through all your quotes. Your argument has been that the current day Nazi's don't have any power, therefor they aren't really Nazi's, they're inconsequential. Which isn't true.[ /quote]

What a surprise. You keep saying what my argument is, but can't quote a single post.

For the record, what is the actual argument you're making here? It sucks we have to go through this but now after 5ish pages, I have no idea anymore what your argument is, so we'll start here. In no uncertain terms, clearly lay out for me what your argument is and I'll be more than happy to reply.

And now you want me to repeat everything so you can continue not reading? No thanks.
 
What a surprise. You keep saying what my argument is, but can't quote a single post.

And now you want me to repeat everything so you can continue not reading? No thanks.

Cool, **** it then. No reason to engage. I didn't realize asking for a clarification, when you point out I'm wrong, was a conversation killer. Ok then.
 
Cool, **** it then. No reason to engage. I didn't realize asking for a clarification, when you point out I'm wrong, was a conversation killer. Ok then.

Dude, accusing me of holding weird and changing arguments and then saying you can't be bothered to back them up is a hella conversation killer.

When im back on laptop I'll try to answer your question. Cell phone driving me nuts
 
I don't normally dedicate time to random podcasts. If you have an argument, present it. You know full and well that pointing elsewhere is not presenting your own argument.

Because I'm the person that originally brought up the podcast , I feel compelled to reiterate that I did so as evidence for the (I thought obvious) claim being asserted by many in this thread that, indeed there are prominent modern day neo-Nazis that advocate for genocide and fascistic ethnostates. I used that podcast specifically because it's by far the most convenient source I'm aware of that specifically catalogues what those kinds of people actually say, and what kind of discourse happens in those circles. The hosts of the show created it to document that sort of content after realizing how often it gets scrubbed from easy-to-access platforms due to deplatforming, other forms of censorship, and even the creators' own efforts to censor themselves to appear more mainstream. It's not random chit-chat, it's quotes from people like Richard Spencer, the hosts of The Daily Shoah and The Right Stuff, and other prominent figures in that world (plus some mocking commentary).

If you don't want to listen to it (although, again, I recommend you do), choose whatever subject you like from the episode list and have a look at the sources or transcript. Because otherwise, as plague311 was saying, it really looks like you're refusing to engage with evidence that disagrees with your assertions.
 
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Cool, **** it then. No reason to engage. I didn't realize asking for a clarification, when you point out I'm wrong, was a conversation killer. Ok then.


I think you've missed the point of right-wing trolling, if you're asking for clarity of belief and concrete examples. This isn't about coherent argument, it's about obfuscation and misdirection. That's why the constant goal-post moving and childish evasions and insults. It's not to support a point, but to confuse opponents and keep them on the defensive, because they don't really have a point to support. It's not a good-faith debate and never has been.
 
I think you've missed the point of right-wing trolling, if you're asking for clarity of belief and concrete examples. This isn't about coherent argument, it's about obfuscation and misdirection. That's why the constant goal-post moving and childish evasions and insults. It's not to support a point, but to confuse opponents and keep them on the defensive, because they don't really have a point to support. It's not a good-faith debate and never has been.

For the most part, I agree, but Thermal and I have had some good conversations. Even with my...profanity laced nonsense from time to time. I don't think he's a troll. I do think that the storyline has gotten away from us a bit and I would really like something solid I can point back to with regards to his argument. I feel like it's been a bit fluid.
 
Because I'm the person that originally brought up the podcast , I feel compelled to reiterate that I did so as evidence for the (I thought obvious) claim being asserted by many in this thread that, indeed there are prominent modern day neo-Nazis that advocate for genocide and fascistic ethnostates. I used that podcast specifically because it's by far the most convenient source I'm aware of that specifically catalogues what those kinds of people actually say, and what kind of discourse happens in those circles. The hosts of the show created it to document that sort of content after realizing how often it gets scrubbed from easy-to-access platforms due to deplatforming, other forms of censorship, and even the creators' own efforts to censor themselves to appear more mainstream.

If you don't want to listen to it (although, again, I recommend you do), choose whatever subject you like from the episode list and have a look at the sources or transcript. Because otherwise, as plague311 was saying, it really looks like you're refusing to engage with evidence that disagrees with your assertions.

Ok. You know what? I'll give a listen. Although it is considered poor form to throw references out and say 'here, you spend your free time finding my argument' .Arguments are normally spelled out in a posters own words
 
For the most part, I agree, but Thermal and I have had some good conversations. Even with my...profanity laced nonsense from time to time. I don't think he's a troll. I do think that the storyline has gotten away from us a bit and I would really like something solid I can point back to with regards to his argument. I feel like it's been a bit fluid.

Nor am I even right wing. What few politics I endorse tend to be hard left. But I always get my arguments walked around. Frustrating
 
Well it is like trying to talk about racism with the same people, if they are not wearing a klan suit with a burning cross and screaming racial epithets while shooting Emmett Tills memorial it isn't racism.

Just because they are shooting Emmett Till's memorial doesn't mean they are racist, they may just object to the government spending money on such things.
 
Well, according to the Vox article the Nazis in question did not identify themselves as Nazis and, instead, chose to call themselves Super Happy Fun America for the purposes of obtaining the permit to have the parade. Since the parade is not an official Nazi™ sanctioned event it would be difficult to deny them a permit to a parade let alone round them all up and put them in prison.

...Although Super Happy Fun America has claimed that “all communities are welcome” at Straight Pride...


https://www.vox.com/identities/2019/7/1/18761623/straight-pride



Not to mention that there are probably people who liked the theme of the parade, considered themselves to be Super Happy Fun Americans but did not consider themselves to be Nazis.

Thermal's point, I think, is that this event is a tempest in a teapot.

One could argue that giving this event more coverage than necessary just plays into the the hands of the organizers of the parade. Again from the Vox article:

Brian Pendleton, co-founder of the L.A. Resist March, argues getting into “a frothy frenzy about what they’re up to” only plays into their hands...
 
Ok. You know what? I'll give a listen. Although it is considered poor form to throw references out and say 'here, you spend your free time finding my argument' .Arguments are normally spelled out in a posters own words

I'm not doing that. The podcast isn't an argument, and I have no idea why you think I'm trying to present it as one. I've already given my argument twice, in very clear terms (modern-day neo-Nazis still argue for genocide and the creation of a fascist ethnostate), and it seems like others here are also arguing much the same thing. This isn't hard. Again, it contains evidence for that claim - the content of it is mostly made up of stuff prominent neo-Nazis and other white supremacists actually say, which is exactly the kind of thing you're asking for. Just as a start, here is a very easy to find quote from Richard Spencer:

“The ideal of a white ethno-state — and it is an ideal — is something that I think we should think about in the sense of what could come after America... It's kind of like a grand goal... It's a way of thinking about [how] we want a new type of society that would actually be a homeland for all white people.”

Your last clarification comment said "They just need to believe in a fascist ethnostate." Do you think the above statement counts?
 
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Nor am I even right wing. What few politics I endorse tend to be hard left. But I always get my arguments walked around. Frustrating

Doesn't matter. It's been established here and there are many examples of this, if you disagree with skeptic dogma, you're a "Trump supporter." Whether or not you support Trump has no bearing on this.
 
What's fun, and I hope deeply disturbing to actual neo-Nazis, is that both actual Nazi gear and skinhead fashion have been adopted and fetishized by a slice of the gay population. A Tumblr full of guys dressed as Nazis is more likely to be a gay porn collection than a racial political one. While this trend is disturbing on several levels I can't help but find deeply funny the thought of genuine Nazi admirers being misled by appearances and stumbling into quite an unexpected crowd.


On 'Ernst Röhm Died For You' Day.
 
Actually, I think you can "promote ISIS", etc, and the government will only bust you for making a bomb, or they trick you into making a bomb, or arrest you if you're trying to travel overseas to literally fight with ISIS, or something like that.

The only prosecuted terrorists I know of are cases like these:
https://shadowproof.com/2016/12/05/...ing-terrorism-plots-reaffirmed-appeals-court/

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/ohio-man-sentenced-15-years-prison-trying-join-isis

Just declaring yourself a member, or saying "I think ISIS is cool and misunderstood, and mostly right" won't do it.

ISIS is also different because it's an armed force we're currently at actual war with.
The US Government recognizes international terrorism as a criminal offense but not domestic terrorism.
 
For the most part, I agree, but Thermal and I have had some good conversations. Even with my...profanity laced nonsense from time to time. I don't think he's a troll. I do think that the storyline has gotten away from us a bit and I would really like something solid I can point back to with regards to his argument. I feel like it's been a bit fluid.

Agreed, the argument has been all over the place with different posters bringing in different POVs. To sum mine up as briefly as possible (and please excuse the brevity; I hate wall o' text).

IMO, the Nazi Nazis were a political force, or as I call them, a fascist ethnostate. Political domination first, Aryan supremacy and genocide second. I don't think the majority of the current crop wants mass extermination. I think they want mass influence, or as I put it, social power. I think that, like a dog chasing a car, they wouldn't know what to do with political power if they got it.

When one of these threads pops up, a certain contingent starts shrieking 'the Reich is Rising! Hitler!!11!' And in doing so, they lose credibility. They look like hyperbolic chicken littles. You know how people roll their eyes when President Obama or Secretary Clinton was compared to Hitler? Or Senator Sanders and Congresswoman AOC called communists? Same problem. Hyperbole does not give credibility. It just makes the neos look 'not that bad' in comparison. And that's shooting yourself in the foot.

Correctly identify your target. Deal with the Fragile Masculinity paraders as exactly what they are...and no more. They are not the Reich on the hoof. They are not comical supervillians bent on world domination and extermination. They are by and large sad little bitches who need their asses kicked. And that's all.

Elagabalus said I seem to think this event is a tempest in a teapot. Sort of. The tempest is very real. Alt-righters are a serious problem. But they are not the Riech. And the more we clutch pearls or stroke beards while waxing historical (hysterical?), the farther we get from what we should be doing, which is keeping an eye on the punks and ridiculing them into oblivion. The occasional throw-down doesn't hurt, either. Crying 'Nazi!' when they are just little white power trash is not helping anything.

Or, as cullennz said, getting all worked up over some little dickheads.
 

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